Archives of Older Discussions

Subject: OT-Ruger Mark II 22/45 From: PM To: All Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 18:27:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Anyone know of an online source of parts on these rascals? I got one that's like brand new for free from a friend, who sliced his hand open on the rear sight, then dropped the pistol on a concrete floor, breaking the hammer pivet pin. TIA Pat

Subject: Re: OT-Ruger Mark II 22/45 From: Malcolm A. Baker To: PM Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 21:16:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes. Try Sturm, Ruger & Co. at www.ruger-firearms.com. If you decide to send them the gun, they will be very fair about repairing it for you. They provise excellent prompt service, and you will know it is in good repair when you get it back.

Subject: Night sights??? From: Squid To: All Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 17:09:01 (EDT) Email Address: valente_d@hotmail.com Message: Has anyone put a set of night sights on their Mak? What brand did you use? How did you install them? I'd like to put a set of night sights on my Bulgie. I know that BEAST offers a Novak sight package, but I'l looking for a cheaper alternative. TIA

Subject: Re: Night sights??? From: wildtim To: Squid Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 20:51:30 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The only thing ''CHeeper'' i can think of is Karls stick on glow-in-the-dark dots, but I haven't tried them. with the Mak's sights there just aren't many options.

Subject: Cart before horse: Bought a Sig220 From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 16:21:05 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: I did something today that I don't normally do. I made an impulse purchase of a firearm that I know little about. I used to always chuckle to myself when someone would post something like the following: 'Hey, I just bought a (fill in the blank) for 'X' amount of dollars. Is this gun any good, and how's the price?' Well, today I put the cart before the horse. I was in a shop perusing the display case just as an LEO was finishing up a trade on a Sig Sauer 220 race gun. After he left, I asked the clerk if anything interesting had come in lately. So the clerk asked what I thought of Sig 220's (.45acp). I said, 'Don't know much about them. Why do you ask?' It turns out that the LEO had traded three Sig 220's on the race gun. Two of them had night sights and one of those had a K-Kote finish. The third had regular sights and a traditional Sig military finish. Two shop employees had already spoken for the night-sight ones, but the third pistol was going to go in the display case. Now, I know very little about Sigs, having never owned one and having only fired a few (226, 229 and 232). Other than that, I'm fairly Sig-clueless. I had no idea if the 220 is a stellar Sig, or one with some idiosyncrasies. I had no idea what the going rate for a used one is. So naturally I bought it... ;) Anyway, the pistol felt great in my hand, with all the controls being where I'd want them. And it pointed very well. But the surprising thing is that this 220 is so clean that I wouldn't have batted an eye if the clerk had told me it was NIB. I mean not a single nick or scratch in the finish or grip. And the barrel is perfect. No evidence of any wear anywhere on the gun whatsoever. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. It came with the box and manual, as well as two mags. The price for a NIB 220 at that shop is $625. I paid $500 for the used one. So... 'Is this gun any good, and how's the price?' Thanks and take care. Marko P.S.: The only other time I impulse bought an 'unresearched' firearm was when I got my first Makarov. But then again, the shop owner told me he'd buy it back if I didn't like it. Kind of a no-brainer.

Subject: Got Falco? From: Karl To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 21:32:15 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: I just got some Falco rigs for that gun today that I'll have at the gun show... -Karl

Subject: Re: Cart before horse: Bought a Sig220 From: denfoote To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 16:45:04 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I dunno Marco. For that price, you could have re-supplied the entire Russian Army with Makarovs. (He He He) Sigs are good pistols from what I hear, although I own (GASP!!!) Glocks. Anyway it's your baby now, so enjoy!!!!

Subject: Good price! From: Texwolf To: denfoote Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 19:15:28 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Good price! From: wildtim To: Texwolf Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 20:47:32 (EDT) Email Address: Wildhausk9@msn.com Message: I'd have to guess that that is a good price, especially since these days anything in .45 acp semms to cost more than a u.s. senator. You'll love the double action pull, at least I do on my wifes 226 in .40 its so smoothe it doesn't even affect my groups out to about 15 yards.

Subject: Re: Good price! From: wildtim To: wildtim Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 20:48:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: BTW MSRP is $810.00 FWIW

Subject: Too expansive. (nt) From: IJ70 To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 16:24:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Simson/Suhl Mak? From: Koba To: All Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 07:51:03 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Greetings...anyone have info on the Simson/Suhl Makarov?...why is it differant from a normal EG?..Any replies much appreciated,Koba

Subject: Check the main site. (nt) From: IJ70 To: Koba Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 12:47:55 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: WTB CZ-52 Slide From: John To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 23:44:54 (EDT) Email Address: stude59@uswest.net Message: One of my CZ-52's has a bolt face that's messed up and it will not chamber a round. So, I need a new slide. Are there any out there for sale? Thanks.

Subject: Re: WTB CZ-52 Slide From: WMFlash To: John Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 23:55:07 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hello, The slide is listed for $45 on this page. http://www.surplusfirearms.com/cz52.htm

Subject: Re: WTB CZ-52 Slide From: John To: WMFlash Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 08:40:37 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks for the tip!

Subject: Just shot some Barnaul! From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 22:12:33 (EDT) Email Address: smith.don@att.net Message: I bought a half-case of mak Barnaul jhp's last week from Dan, figuring that I'd give it a try, given its extremely cheap price. I've also seen positive posts here on this ruskie ammo. I normally carry corbons in my maks, and they are SO expensive. Well, I took 2 boxes of Barnauls, some Corbons, and my favorite circle10 Mak to the range today, and I'm impressed! 100 rounds, no failures of any type. The mak's feedramp is polished, fyi. Accuracy was identical to the more powerful Corbons. The 'sharper' Barnies cut a nicer hole in paper than do the smoother Corbons. They do smell funny when fired, though. It smells like fried electronics. And it makes the gun dirtier. But, at only $6 for a box of 50, who cares. This cheap hollowpoint ammo is good enough to carry, IMHO. I'm gonna buy some more!

Subject: Re: Just shot some Barnaul! From: Wildtim To: J.R. Bob Dobbs Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 00:12:15 (EDT) Email Address: Wildhausk9@msn.com Message: I also love this stuff, and keep it in the gun. Besides the smell keeps people from taking the lanes too close to mine, not to mention the orbiting brass

Subject: Buying once-fired brass From: Karl To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 21:03:42 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: In an effort to get the reloading stuff going, I'm buying once-fired brass. I'm offering Makarov.com credit (no cash) per brass case: 9x18Makarov (NOT cut down 9x19) - $0.04 each 7.62x25 - $0.05 each Conditions: * You pay for shipping. * Brass only - no steel cases, no aluminum. * Boxer primed only, no Berdan. If the case has a single flash hole, that's Boxer; two or more, it's Berdan. * No splits, cracks, or other defects that prevent them from being reloaded. * Dirty brass is OK...I'll tumble and decap them. * I reserve final judgement as to whether case is reloadable or not and whether credit will be given. Please let me know how many cases you have sent by a note in the box and send to the usual place: Makarov.com, Inc. PO Box 874 (for US Postal) 7637 Brandywine Circle (for UPS) Trexlertown, PA 18087 If possible, let me know it's coming so I know to look for it. -Karl

Subject: PA vs. GA Makarov meets From: SlimTim To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 17:55:10 (EDT) Email Address: slimtim@makarov.com Message: Just an enticement to you folks thinking about going to the show in Pennsylvania for the ''Makarov-meet.'' That show will NOT feature this: If that is not enough enticement to skip the other show, then maybe this will help. Dennis Kroh of Empire Arms will be at the Atlanta show. I just emailed him to invite him to our get-together, hope he can make it! SlimTim

Subject: Why? To see that Pimp gun? From: Pilot To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 18:18:57 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: I'd think that Mak would scare away most folks not in the flesh trade. LOL! Pilot

Subject: Re: PA vs. GA Makarov meets From: Greg S. To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 02:49:34 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Man!! You got to let Karl loan you the hot pink grips and post a picture of that thing here. Also, If you ever want to sell, I want at least a notice. Cash is really tight for me now, but later?? Greg S.

Subject: Did you say that's an enticement for... From: Marko To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 22:22:57 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: ST: I forgot, did you say that's an enticement for coming to the GA show or for staying away from it? Just kidding, of course. You rebs have fun now, and us yanks will do the same. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: PA vs. GA Makarov meets From: Karl To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 21:47:43 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: Tim, Yeah, but you won't have the hot pink Makawrap. :-) -Karl PS: But I'm sending it to you.

Subject: In the words & music of Elvis . . . From: SlimTim To: Karl Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 00:38:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I gave a package to the postman, he put it his sack. But in early next morning, he brought my package back. He wrote upon it: Return to sender, address unknown. No such number, no such zone. He had a gun, a pimp's Mak I send him a grip but my package keeps coming back. So then I dropped it in the mailbox And sent it special D. But in early next morning it came right back to me. He wrote upon it: Return to sender, address unknown. No such number, no such zone. This time I'm gonna take it myself and put it right in his hand. And if it comes back the very next day then I'll understand the writing on it Return to sender, address unknown. No such person, no such zone.

Subject: Bravo, Maestro! nt From: TDM To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 19:32:05 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: x

Subject: Re: PA vs. GA Makarov meets From: Makman To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 19:17:45 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I might be able to make it in July to TN. Tim can I touch the pimp Mak ? MM

Subject: Re: PA vs. GA Makarov meets From: SlimTim To: Makman Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:23:47 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I might be able to make it in July to TN. Tim can I touch the pimp Mak ? MM --- MakMan, No, but I'll let you touch a projectile coming out of it's barrel at around 1,000 fps! :-) The pimp-mak will be in Nashville, TN on a two week exhibit July 9 through July 22 (which, incidentally, coincides with job training I have scheduled there.) Plan around those dates, hope that works for you too, Markus. John G. from the mak list says he's coming through sometime the last week of July. Heck, we may just have another Mak-fest! -- ST

Subject: Re: PA vs. GA Makarov meets From: Markus To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 18:50:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Man I wish I could go! May be going to Philly,Tn to see the inlaws in July. Maybe we could have a mini meet with you and Tn and whoever else is in the area. That sho is one purty Russian!

Subject: Re: We no need no steeenking . . . From: BRS To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 18:42:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . pimp guns here, ST! :) Seriously, that is a very fine looking Mak. Atlanta is just so darn far to drive at about 16 hours from here! Have a nice show! BRS

Subject: Dennis Kroh & Gary Cole in Atlanta From: SlimTim To: BRS Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 00:47:16 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . pimp guns here, ST! :) Seriously, that is a very fine looking Mak. Atlanta is just so darn far to drive at about 16 hours from here! Have a nice show! BRS --- BRS, How many chances in your life do you think you'll have to see a Mak like this?? :-) If I read Dennis's response correctly, he will join us after the show at the Cracker Barrel. (That's a fine eating establishment throughout the south, Marko.) Also, Gary Cole will be at the show, I asked Dennis to invite Gary to come along too! Now if we could just get Karl to share their table and forget that small, thousand table show up there. Come on down Karl! ST

Subject: Cracker Barrel From: PM To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 13:30:04 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey, us Yankees have Cracker Barrels up here, too! At least in N. Indiana.

Subject: Re: Cracker Barrel From: pa To: PM Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 13:43:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey, us Yankees have Cracker Barrels up here, too! At least in N. Indiana. --- We have at least 'one' here in Iowa...that my wife and I support every week. This one has some decent old shotguns on the wall. =^)

Subject: Hey, I'm not a total Philistine... From: Marko To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:32:32 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: ...If I read Dennis's response correctly, he will join us after the show at the Cracker Barrel. (That's a fine eating establishment throughout the south, Marko... --- ST: I'm not a total Philistine. I've eaten at virtually every Cracker Barrel on I-95, from Ft. Lauderdale to Richmond. Love their chicken-fried steak and their biscuits with sausage gravy... ;) Take care. Marko

Subject: CZ-52 Wood grips... From: Texwolf To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 16:36:15 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just ran across these. This might be 'old news' to some, or YEEE-HAAA for others. Just thought I'd pass it on. www.shooterstore.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=111&CATID=594&ObjectGroup_ID=1939

Subject: Re: CZ-52 Wood grips... From: Texwolf To: Texwolf Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 16:39:47 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, it appears I don't know how to put a link in a message, let's try this again. http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=111&CATID=594&ObjectGroup_ID=1939 JG Sales is where I found the wood grips, just thought I'd pass it on.

Subject: Why not makarov.com? From: SlimTim To: Texwolf Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 00:09:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You might want to check out the makarov.com website as Karl sells these for $32 delivered. Federal Arms sells them for $29 + shipping, and list theirs as ''checkered.'' Hard to beat Karl's price when you consider shipping and handling charges. -- ST

Subject: Re: Why not makarov.com? From: Texwolf To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 19:18:39 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, since I'm not a CZ-52 owner (yet), I haven't seen them listed at Makarov.com. Like I said in the post, I was just passing on what I saw. Of course, I'd buy from Karl first.

Subject: What's better..wood grips or Hogue Handall? From: WMFlash To: Texwolf Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 20:47:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They also sell some here at Makarov.com. I have a Hogue Handall on mine and I like it, but it is a bit bulky. I don't like the stock grips at all. Has anyone had any experience with both? Has anyone found aftermarket wood grips that provide a better grip than the Handall?

Subject: Russian PM's for sale From: Peck To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 15:29:44 (EDT) Email Address: stevebyrn@yahoo.com Message: Stopped at my local shop over lunch today. He just received two sneak Russian Military PM's. Mis-marked as Bulgarian imports. What are these worth? One is a 1960, appears unissued with 2 matching mags. The other is a 1975, probably 90% finish. Are we seeing a flood of these mismarks coming in or are these still an anomaly which command a higher value? Peck

Subject: Re: Russian PM's for sale From: CW To: Peck Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 19:37:48 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I would go after the 1960 one, as there are very few '60's dated Mil Maks, and the earlier ones seem to have more variations (i.e. serialed safetys, diffrent slide releases, etc.). There are plenty of the 70's and 80's around at the momment, probably not later. Since these have import marks, I would go between $185 and $250, depending on the condition. Let us know what you do :) -Chris

Subject: Re: Russian PM's for sale From: Peck To: CW Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 11:36:15 (EDT) Email Address: stevebyrn@yahoo.com Message: I bought the 1960 dated Russian PM. In checking it closer, I am virtually certain it is unfired, it has absolutely zero wear on the barrel, breech face, or rails. It came with 2 magazines serial numbered to the gun. I paid $140 for it, which I think was a pretty good price even though it has a PW Arms import stamp on it, it does not have a country of origin stamp however. Peck

Subject: Need some Mak stuff? From: pa To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 14:43:26 (EDT) Email Address: payeager1@home.com Message: Received these, tried them out, but don't really care for them, so here is a lil' package deal. Everything for $25 shipped. albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1204853&a=12671121&p=47686445

Subject: Russian Military Maks Available From: Kevin To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 11:12:48 (EDT) Email Address: kch105@hotmail.com Message: Yesterday afternoon I received this e-mail message from JC Armory: Found some GENUINE and very rare Russian Military Makarovs in with our supply of Bulgarian Makarovs. These Russian are marked with a date as well as with the bifurcated triangle in the circlE (the Bulgarian have the number '10' in a circle). We have four of these Russian Military Makarovs available: ******Three are EXC (probably unissued) condition with 1 magazine - Price: $210.00 Dates: 1975, 1975, 1968 ******One is VG condition with some blue wear on slide with 1 magazine - Price: $175.00 Date: 1976 If I didn't have a Russian Milsurp, or had some more $$ left in my pistol budget I would take advantage of at least one of these! But - maybe some other board member?

Subject: I got one ! From: Makman To: Kevin Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 19:13:32 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You just have to be fast on the draw ! MM

Subject: Re: I got one ! From: Marko To: Makman Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 22:18:42 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: You just have to be fast on the draw ! MM --- And have friends who think of you... Congrats on the acquisition! Take care. Marko

Subject: Sorry - here's the link From: Kevin To: Kevin Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 11:21:26 (EDT) Email Address: kch105@hotmail.com Message: Getting my codes mixed up! JC Armory

Subject: I called today, all sold :-( From: SlimTim To: Kevin Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 17:49:18 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: And NO! I didn't get them! ST

Subject: Military or Commercial From: Michigander To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 08:48:40 (EDT) Email Address: rodn@montcalm.cc.mi.us Message: I came across a Makarov that has the following Identification markings. On left side of slide: IJ-70-380K 'Baikal' B AC 8xxx On the Frame (still left side) above Grip: B AC 8xxx then there is a arrow pointing up in a circle, and what appears to be a horseshoe with the letter 'P' inside it. On the right side of the slide: CAL. 380-ACP B-WEST Tuc:AC On frame above grip: Made in Russia IZHEVSK Question, Is this commercially manufactured and how much is it worth. It appears to be in great shape, 95% or better. Thanks.

Subject: Re: Military or Commercial From: Wildtim To: Michigander Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 00:01:06 (EDT) Email Address: Wildhausk9@msn.com Message: Where at? I'm also in Michigan and this sounds like Mak I saw not too long ago. Don't worry I'm too broke to buy it and also too busy playing with my new circle ten.

Subject: comercial. From: IJ70 To: Michigander Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 23:20:01 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Standard Commercial ntxt From: arcom To: Michigander Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 10:19:36 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: .

Subject: Military or From: area51 To: All Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 08:39:07 (EDT) Email Address: area51@spacemountain.gov Message:

Subject: Off to enjoy birthday cigar. Thanks to all... From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 22:51:34 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Well, I'm off to smoke my second cigar of the day, officially ending my 40th birthday. Thank you to all of you who took the time to wish me well, both here as well as off-board via e-mail. Much appreciated, folks. Take care all. Marko

Subject: Should get Vanad for Birthday! From: Pilot To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 14:04:54 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: Marko. Maybe you can find a P-83 Vanad at the Harrisburg show! Pilot

Subject: I'll have to get one just so you'll... From: Marko To: Pilot Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:35:47 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Pilot: I'll have to get a Vanad just so you'll stop hounding me about it! ;) Actually, it would be nice if we came across one in Harrisburg. I'd really like to handle one. Take care. Marko

Subject: Hope you had a good one! From: Patman To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 22:56:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 40, Huh? Oh, well, another year smarter. I celebrated your birthday by buying a Miltex SE:D Happy Birthday!

Subject: Re: Hope you had a good one! From: Marko To: Patman Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 01:19:30 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey Patman: Any excuse to buy a new firearm, eh? I like it. So, which model SE did you get? Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Hope you had a good one! From: PM To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 13:40:52 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I bought Pa's blued SE from Auction Arms. (Sorry, Bullet44!) :-) I can't wait to get it!!!! Pat

Subject: This one... From: pa To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 02:25:03 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1204853&a=8887507&p=47654229 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1204853&a=12671121&p=47296801 Hope he likes it. ;^)

Subject: Re: This one... From: Guard To: pa Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 11:30:18 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey Marko, have a wonderful birthday! Best Wishes Guard

Subject: Thanks much! See you Saturday? From: Marko To: Guard Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 11:58:52 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: 11:00am Saturday at Karl's table?

Subject: Thanks Serger! From: Markus To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 22:26:40 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Its a little late but I wanted to thank you for the info on how to polish the feed ramp.

Subject: you're welcome.Do any Good? From: serger To: Markus Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 03:23:11 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just thought I'd ask.

Subject: Re: you're welcome.Do any Good? From: Markus To: serger Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 19:04:37 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have a EG Mak. The only problem I have is with CorbonJHP. So far I have been to chicken to try it.( I couldn't cut a board straight prior to getting a miter saw!) But at least I have the info once I get the nerve.Thanks!

Subject: just do it... From: serger To: Markus Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 02:06:42 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: you're only a virgin once. But seriously, I'd try some different mags prior to doing the polish job.

Subject: WTS: Fed. Arms MAK 380conversion bbl Cheap! From: Mike S. To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:49:27 (EDT) Email Address: mstorey@telapex.com Message: For Sale: I have a New Federal arms 380acp bbl for makarov pistols (not for Hungarian PA-63). I have the original instructions as well. I purchased from FAC last month and after reading the instructions about having to have a barrel press, I decided to leave the pistol in 9x18. This barrel is the standard stainless barrel ( Fed Arms part #H424N)and is not ported or threaded. If you already have the barrel press then this is for you. Otherwise, it is strongly recommended that you purchase the barrel press from Fed. Arms or from this site to swap out the bbl. No other modifiactions necessary to fire 380acp. Uses the same mags. Most of you guys already know this. Paid $49.95 + shipping but will sell for $40 and I will pay USPS shipping to your door. Save about $10-15 bucks at my expense of lack of gunsmithing skills. Payment by certified bank check or money order only. Please e-mail if interested. Thanks, Mike Storey FFL03 Mississippi

Subject: barrel is SOLD!! thanks to all who inquired ntxt From: Mike S. To: Mike S. Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 15:15:13 (EDT) Email Address: mstorey@telapex.com Message: Sold

Subject: Harrisburg,PA May 5 and 6 From: Guard To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:16:42 (EDT) Email Address: Ralph@stateguard.i-p.com Message: Hey Marko,BRS Pilot and the other guys, I hope to see you at Karl's table sometime over the weekend. Are you going Sat or Sun? Guard?

Subject: I'll be there! From: Pilot To: Guard Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 14:01:38 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: I'll look for everyone at Karl's table at 11:00. The only downside is I usually end up buying something at these things. Downside? Did I say downside. See ya! Pilot

Subject: Saturday morning for me From: Marko To: Guard Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 22:47:46 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey Guard: I plan on being there, along with BRS, when the doors open. I'd like to be on back on the road to Pittsburgh by noon so that I can catch the Greengate Mall show on the way home. How does 11:00am at Karl's table sound for everyone? That gives us early show-goers a chance to peruse the aisles for a while, but also let's the late-risers time to rub the sleep from their eyes while still having time to meet us there. Everyone check in here with a yea or nay, okay? Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Harrisburg,PA May 5 and 6 From: BRS To: Guard Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 21:53:37 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko and I plan on being there when the doors open, and I'll be at Karl's table at 11:00AM for a sure meet time, and probably earlier. Hope to see you there, too! BRS

Subject: Re: Saturday (NT) From: BRS To: BRS Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 21:54:21 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Harrisburg,PA May 5 and 6 From: Larrie To: Guard Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 21:49:55 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Is there a show in Harrisburg this weekend? I live here and haven't heard anything about a gun show.

Subject: 9-5 Sat; 9-4 Sun @ Farm Show Cmpx (nt) From: BRS To: Larrie Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 22:01:01 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Registering Mak problems? From: Ross To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 17:36:12 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I went to the local sheriff to register an EG Mak I bought on my C & R. I wrote NHM SAC CA as the importer and Makarov as the model. The woman who worked there insisted the manufacturer was Makarov. I tried to explain that it was made by the German military and NHM SAC CA was just the importer. The model was a Makarov. They finally put Makarov as the model and Makarov as the manufacturer. I didn't want to argue...just get the gun registered. An officer came out and looked at it and said 'what the hell kind of caliber is 9 x 18?' I always seem to create problems when I register Maks, CZ 50s, Nagant revolvers, CZ 52, etc. They cannot find the calibers or do they know what to put for the manufacturer. Has anyone else had these problems?

Subject: Re: Registering Mak problems? From: Wildtim To: Ross Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 00:09:29 (EDT) Email Address: Wildhausk9@msn.com Message: I am also in the state of michigan and might have had the same problem but the functionary at the sherrifs didn't even care enough to look closely and even examine if the serial number on the card was the same as on the gun. Love thos effective registration laws. By the way I've thought about getting a c&r but have put it off because I wasn't sure how they handle the purchase permit thing. Hows it work?

Subject: No problem, I live in a free state. From: Bret To: Ross Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 21:37:52 (EDT) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: I have not had any problems because I live in a free state (Georgia) and therefore do not have to register my guns. It's amazing that the authorities put in charge of keeping track of lawful peoples' guns don't know anything about them. Where do you live that you have to put up with this kind of crap? - Bret

Subject: I am in Michigan NT From: Ross To: Bret Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 10:46:57 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Registering Mak problems? From: Pussball To: Ross Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 18:39:51 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We don't register our guns here in Washington (yet?). When I receive a new C&R gun, ALL I have to do is log it into my Bound Book. Regards - Pussball

Subject: Re: Registering Mak problems? From: CW To: Pussball Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 00:03:28 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I had some trouble in KALIFORNIA because the serial number of the Russ Mil Mak began with cyrilics. I can't remeber the compramise, but I think they put in a special note about it being in Russian. -Chris

Subject: Glad I live in Texas NT From: Texwolf To: CW Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 12:44:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Need info on soviet makarov. From: JDH To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 10:56:35 (EDT) Email Address: jdh@vcd.hp.com Message: I'm looking at buying a 1976 dated military makarov imported by PW ARMS in Redmond Wa. It has two serialized mags that match the pistols serial number that include a -1 and a -2 after the number. These numbers are electropenciled on the mags. The seller says that it's NIB. Could someone please tell me if this method of numbering mags was used by the soviets in '76 or if this was done after importation? Also, he's asking $400.00. What say the experts? Thanx in advance for your help. Regards,JDH

Subject: Re: Need info on soviet makarov. From: henry To: JDH Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 20:08:45 (EDT) Email Address: hturchin@cinci.rr.com Message: I've served in russian army in 72-74 and had Makarov with me for these long 2 years. During this time mags didn't have any markings. Regards Henry

Subject: Thanx to all for your help!.....ntxt From: JDH To: JDH Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 10:44:02 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: .

Subject: Re: Need info on soviet makarov. From: PM To: JDH Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 00:34:26 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've got an identical one, and I paid $275 for it a year ago. I'd pay $400 for it if it wasn't import marked, but the ''Backdoored'' Russian PW arms pistol ain't worth it. Unless you really, really want it. In which case, it's your money, you can spend it however you want. Mine is a smooth shooter. One of my best PMs

Subject: Re: Need info on soviet makarov. From: IJ70 To: JDH Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 14:11:25 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What kind of rear sight does it have?

Subject: Re: Need info on soviet makarov. From: JDH To: IJ70 Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 14:22:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Fixed.

Subject: I would wait. From: IJ70 To: JDH Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 22:12:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: These guns have been made for decades. They are not going to disapear over night. Just wait and more will show up and then you can get one for good price.

Subject: Re: Need info on soviet makarov. From: Greg To: JDH Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 12:52:27 (EDT) Email Address: koele@erols.com Message: Are these PWA Russian Makarovs C&R even though they are dated in the 1970's?

Subject: Re: Need info on soviet makarov. From: JDH To: Greg Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 14:25:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They're on the list.

Subject: Rip Off From: arcom To: JDH Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 12:06:25 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The dealer is asking you to pay $400 for a pistol that came in last summer by mistake with a load of Bulgarian Makarovs which cost $150. True collectable Russian milsurps are not import stamped --- that is a dead give away they are back doored pistols. If you think it's worth $400 for a genuine Russkie without an import stamp, get one from Dennis Kroh at Empire Arms. It won't come with matching mags, but then again it's likely the one you looked at was a force match. Don't get me wrong, your dealer's is a true Russian milsurp, but worth more like $250. Except for the sneak pistols from last summer, Russian milsurps were never imported in any quantity. Some lucky Mak owners got one of the sneaks for $150 or less, thinking they were ordering Bulgarian pistols.

Subject: Re: Rip Off From: JDH To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 14:54:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Good information. I'm curious though. Why wouldn't Dennis's pistols be import marked? I read somewhere that he had over a hundred pieces so I assumed that they were recently imported and would have been stamped. Are you certain about this? Thanx alot for your help. Regards,JDH

Subject: Re: Rip Off From: arcom To: JDH Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 16:16:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Dennis' pistols are unmarked except for the original factory stampings. $395 with one mag. See www.empirearms.com

Subject: Re: Rip Off From: Frenchy To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 18:35:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The one's Dennis has came into the country one year before the import mark law(1986 I beleave). They had been stored away since that time until Dennis purchased them. I see New Jersey Armory is advertising 4 of these 'back Door' Russians for $185.00 to $210.00 depending on condition.

Subject: Shot my new CZ 52 Sunday From: Eric Marsh To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 08:50:04 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: Janet and I had our 12th wedding anniversery Sunday. After a lazy morning we decided to celibrate it Texas style, loaded a bunch of guns into the Goldwing and headed for the range. After shooting a while we rode up to Lake Buchannan. This was my first time out with the CZ 52. To my disappointment it did not spit fire half way to the target. It does make a nice boom though. Shot some S&B and cheap Chinese ammo. Man, that steel ammo really does make a mess in the gun. The CZ I got seems to be in good shape. I think its essentially a fairly accurate gun except that the trigger pull makes it more challenging. I was just shooting at 7 1/2 yards but I did manage to get a couple groups within 1 to 2 inches. I think with a smooter trigger it wouldn't be hard to improve on that. In contrast, my Glock 30 was having a great day. I put 9 out of 10 rounds of one magazine through a single 1' hole in the center of the target. The other round fell just a little low. That G30 is another damn fine gun. My Makarov is on its way back to Century for repairs. We are starting to feel pretty disappointed with Janet's Sig 232. It not that accurate and jams a lot. I may put it up on the auction block one of these days. At this point we are starting to look closely at getting her a Kahr P9. Everybody who ownes one has nothing but good things to say about them. As for the CZ 52, I have a new Makarov.com firing pin on order. Its supposed to improve the trigger pull. I'll put some more rounds through it before I decide if I like the gun or not. I suspect that in time it will grow on me though. Eric

Subject: Harrington trigger enhancement From: arcom To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 14:35:23 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I installed one a while back and it makes a world of difference. However, and this is a big however, nowhere does it mention the enhancement defeats the firing pin safety, either at the web site or in the instructions. In fact, I never would have known it were it not for Dr.K mentioning it in a post. Had I known it, I would have not put it in. I will leave the pistol as is, but will exercise extreme caution when using it. I would think there could be some serious liability issues for the manufacturer should someone be injured by an AD atrributable to the modification. But since Harrington is out of business, or at least my numerous attempts to contact them have been fruitless, the point may be moot.

Subject: Re: Harrington trigger enhancement From: Karl To: arcom Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 00:02:37 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: A couple of comments: * I've since added a big warning on the CZ-52 page about the Harrington kits (-2 & -3) disabling the firing pin block. * Harrington is NOT out of business...in fact, I got a shipment today. However, they're a small shop like Makarov.com where operators are not standing by 24/7. * The Harrington -2 and -3 kits disable the firing pin block, sometimes called the firing pin safety, but NOT the manual safety. This was not mentioned here, but I've had several people ask me this. * There are only a few scenarios that I can think of where the firing pin block would prevent a negligent discharge vis-a-vis the Harrington kit: 1) The gun is dropped on its muzzle with extreme force such that the inertia of the firing pin overcomes the rearward force of the new firing pin spring. IMHO, this is extremely unlikely and everyone who is uncomfortable with this should immediately sell their Makarov as well since there's no f.p. block (or spring!) on that. 2) The sear/hammer interaction fails and the hammer drops without touching the trigger. If this is the case, you have bigger problems than the Harrington kit...you're looking at possible full auto when the trigger is pulled. 3) The decocker is defective such that it acts as a trigger without lifting the firing block activator. This is perhaps the most insidious behavior, particularly for those of us used to the positive hammer block of the Makarov decocker. If this is the case on your CZ-52, you are now _relying_ on the firing pin safety to not fire your gun when decocking. What happens if your plunger sticks due to crud? Did the designers have a reason for this f.p. block? Sure...it does add a level of safety. But it can also mask potential problems. My feeling is that if you use your CZ-52 as a carry gun that needs to be ultra-reliable and safe, don't do the conversion. Whether or not the '52 is an appropriate carry gun is another issue, but one that's more likely opinion than a definitive yes or no. I happen to think it's over kill that can get you into trouble with an overzealous prosecutor when (*not* if) you land in court after a shooting. Read Mas Ayoob's 'In The Gravest Extreme' for more on this (I have a few copies left, BTW). If you want your CZ-52 as a fun target pistol with a nice crisp and light trigger pull, consider the conversion. If you want it for both, the trigger kit is not a permanent irreversible conversion. In fact, with some simple tools, you can switch back and forth at the range. My 2 kopecks. -Karl

Subject: Re: Harrington trigger enhancement From: Eric Marsh To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 16:16:50 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: Considering that the Makarov that we all own and love doesn't have a firing pin safety, I have to wonder how important it is. Eric

Subject: Re: Harrington trigger enhancement From: arcom To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 16:18:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Makarov most definitely has a firing pin safety. The only way the firing pin can impact a primer with sufficient force to cause ignition is if you pull the trigger.

Subject: Re: Harrington trigger enhancement From: Eric Marsh To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 17:45:00 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: Are you absolutely sure? Right now my Mak is in for service, but it seems to me that the pin is unrestrained.

Subject: Re: Harrington trigger enhancement From: WMFlash To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 18:59:30 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have no idea about this, because I don't own a Mak (I know, I'm a sinner:-), only a CZ-52. However, I do know the PPK does not, it only has a hammer block device that keeps the hammer from striking the firing pin. The pin itself has no safety. Checking Makarov FAQ on this site I see, 'You'll probably have to jar it pretty hard (like drop it on its muzzle from 4 feet up) to get it to go off...'. Sounds like the Makarov might be a lot like the PPK, the hammer is blocked off by a safety, but on a very off chance the intertia from the firing pin could set the gun off, although that seems unlikely. It seems to my the decocker feature on the CZ-52 is the same concept of blocking of the hammer. I can't remember now, I'll have to check it out when I get the gun back. If that is the case, and you know your decocker is NOT defective, then it should keep the gun from firing even if it receives a sharp blow. Hmmm...but, I'm sure I'll come to a different conclusion tomorrow.:-) But, that's the beauty of a message board.

Subject: To install or not to install? From: WMFlash To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 16:39:55 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks for the info, arcom. Hmmm...I'm not really sure what I should do, now. A light trigger pull is very tempting, but you can never be to safe when it comes to firearms. Any other opinions about the safety of the CZ-52 trigger enhancement? To install, or not to install?

Subject: Re: To install or not to install? From: Mike P. Wagner To: WMFlash Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:39:00 (EDT) Email Address: mikepwagner@nc.rr.com Message: I had bought the Harrington 'competition' kit from makarov, and when I realized that it disabled the safety, I traded it for the 'military' kit, which has a hardened pin, but does not disable the safety. My own personal thoughts were that in general, I don't like the idea of removing safeties, and that the designer for some reason thought this gun needed that safety. This safety was not added to meet some capricious federal law- this gun pre-dates all of that. Designers can be wrong, and do wacky things. But the fact remains that the designer added this mechanism and expense to a military pistol where I would have expected that there be considerable pressure to cut costs, and simplify. So I think that the designer must have tought it necessary. So, with all that on top of my general attitude about leaving safeties in place, lead me to trade in the 'competition' pin. It may help that I do a lot of dry firing (with Snap Caps), and the trigger seems to be getting a lot smoother. Mike P. Wagner

Subject: Re: Shot mine friday and.... From: jR To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 10:55:16 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: got out friday for first time with mine had some china ammo and some '51' dated chech ammo on striper clips chinese shot great the chech ammo basically sucks. Many double taps and one round lodged in the barrel about half a inch in and coused gun to jam thank god it coused a jam and that i dident fire next shot and have the damn thing blow up! I must say i like the trigger pull and only plan to get a original firing pin and extractor in my spare parts kit. BTW. Anyone denateing getting a 19$ mag from makarov.com do it the one i got was in new like condition and way better the the crappy ones that came with my gun.

Subject: firing pin/trigger enhancement From: Tyler To: jR Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 13:13:32 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The new firing pin, makes a big difference in the trigger pull on the gun. If you pull the trigger without the slide, you will get the idea of how it will feel. Also, the fact that you will now be able to dry fire the gun without breaking the firing pin makes it even better.

Subject: Re: firing pin/trigger enhancement From: WMFlash To: Tyler Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 14:01:04 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Tyler, I had a question for you. I ordered the trigger enhancement, but I'm a little worried about what happens to the CZ-52 when the passive firing pin safety is disengaged. Is it possible for my gun to fire if given a sharp blow to the hammer with a round chambered (if it were accidentally dropped when cocked)? For example, can it still be safely carried cocked and lock or with the hammer down safety off and round in the chamber? I know that the firing pin safety makes it possible to carry in such a state, but with it disengaged, I'm not so sure. The gun is on loan for a little while, so I can't mess with it myself. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Subject: Re: firing pin/trigger enhancement From: Tyler To: WMFlash Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:05:43 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Let's look at this thoroughly. When the gun is decocked, without the safety engaged, there is a hammer block preventing it from knocking the firing pin into the chamber. With the hammer cocked and the safety not engaged, it would be extremely difficult for the hammer to break through the sear to drop, but, if it did, it would still have the same hammer block in place as when it is decocked. With it cocked and locked, you have the trigger safety and the hammer block to prevent it from firing. Therefore, IMHO the gun should be safe to carry cocked and locked with the Harrington firing pin/trigger enhancement.

Subject: Re: firing pin/trigger enhancement From: WMFlash To: Tyler Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 20:24:28 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, they do say to know your weapon inside and out. This technical chat has really gotten me to think about the way the gun works. My decocker has been retro-fitted by Century, meaning there is absolutely nothing wrong with the functioning of the hammer block safety. So, the Harrington Competition Firing pin should be OK in my pistol. IMHO the Czech's thought that there was a remote chance that if dropped, even though the hammer would not hit the firing pin, the pin itself might have enough momentum to fire the round (no firing pin spring in a CZ-52, right? So, I suppose it is possible). To my mind, it was added as an update to the Walther PPK / Makarov hammer block design, where this one-in-a-million accident is virtually impossible, but theoretically could happen. It appears that this is a case of over-engineering. Heck, the whole gun is over-engineered. It can stand up to hotter loads than probably the Czech service rounds, has a lot of safeties, etc. You'll have to remember that the CZ-52 was ultra-high tech for it's time. Thinking about it, not only is it extremely tough, but it is extremely safe. By installing this aftermarket piece (and knowing that I have a properly functioning decocker), the gun pretty much has the safety features of a Walther PPK. Knowing that, I will go ahead and install the competetion upgrade. Thanks for all the input. -WMFlash-

Subject: Re: firing pin/trigger enhancement From: Tyler To: WMFlash Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 22:21:12 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: By the way, the Harrington firing pin does have a spring, so the firing pin cannot have momentum forward on it's own.

Subject: TZ-99 Sig226 knock-off: Opinions? From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 02:07:24 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Anyone know anything about the TZ-99 Sig226 knockoffs? Other than being a copy of the Serbian CZ-99 (no, not from Czech 'CZ'), all I know is that it's from South Africa and not from Tanfoglio (Italy). They're a dead ringer for the 226, they come with 15rd mags, and they can be had for under $300. Understanding my fondness for Eastern European handguns, how do these puppies rate? Thanks all. Take care. Marko www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2001-04-22/GUN101_988386621_TZ99.jpg

Subject: Re: TZ-99 Sig226 knock-off: Opinions? From: Beavo To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 07:48:08 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey Marko, where does one find them (period) and for under $300? TIA

Subject: Re: TZ-99 Sig226 knock-off: Opinions? From: Marko To: Beavo Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 10:53:08 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Beavo: Check out the auction sites on the net. That's where I've seen them. Take care. Marko

Subject: Also, does it take factory Sig mags? From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 03:24:04 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Also, anyone know if it takes factory Sig mags? Thanks a lot. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Also, does it take factory Sig mags? From: Patrick To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, May 02, 2001 at 03:12:12 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I almost bought one of these about 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Beretta 92 mags can be easily modified to fit. BTW, reason I didn't get one, it that I got a CZ-75 instead.

Subject: Re: Also, does it take factory Sig mags? From: Dan's To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 08:08:20 (EDT) Email Address: dansportammo@alltel.net Message: the TZ99 doesn't take SIG mags. We carried these particular pistols quite some time ago. A direct copy of the Yugo Zastava pistol. It's a large robust military pistol. Advantage over the SIG: ambi controls, loaded chamber indicator, forged slide, quality barrel. A very good value for it's cost.

Subject: Thanks for the info, Dan (ntxt) From: Marko To: Dan's Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 10:51:41 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: nt

Subject: Don't you just hate it when you... From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 23:32:01 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Don't you hate it when you take six different (Eastern European) pistols to the range, and you can't decide which one you like best? Yeah, it's just killing me... ;) Friday afternoon promised to be a warm and sunny day, so I decided to take the afternoon off and head to the pistol range. I was banking on it being fairly empty, like most weekdays there, and I wasn't disappointed. Only one other soul, and he was on the rifle range. I got to shoot for almost three straight hours, walking out to check my targets whenever I felt like it, instead of waiting for an 'all clear'. Anyway, I brought the following pistols with me: customized 9x18 Arsenal carry Mak; 9x18 hi-cap Mak; .380 CZ-83; 9mm CZ-75B; 9mm CZ75 PCR Compact; and 9mm HS2000 (along with Arcom's old 9mm Hi-Point carbine --- don't laugh, it's exceptionally reliable and quite accurate out to about 75yds with the red-dot scope and laser --- a fun rifle, to be sure). I honestly can't tell you which pistol I enjoyed the most. Every one of them was flawlessly reliable through 100 rounds each. And I can't complain about the accuracy of any of them either. My only 'complaint' might be that the Arsenal got a little painful to shoot near the end, due to its wearing a stock EG plastic grip. Other than that, they're all rather comfortable. The Maks performed like... well, they performed like Makarovs. That is, almost boringly flawless. Pity the fools who badmouth these gems without ever getting to know them. As for the 75B, no wonder it's developed an almost cult-like following. Great ergonomics, smooth trigger, nice sights, 15 round capacity, and shoots like a dream. I loaded it up with some Speer plus-P-plus and the increased recoil was barely noticeable. Accuracy, even at 50 yards, was still quite tight using the Speer in this pistol. And the CZ PCR? What can I say? I'm so glad I found this pistol. Just a great, great carry piece. Light enough and small enough to carry easily, but still hefty enough to keep muzzle flip down. Same great ergonomics and trigger as the fullsize 75, and love those contoured rubber grips. Super comfortable. Plus it'll accept the fullsize 15rd mags when you feel the need. And best of all, out to 25yds its just as accurate as its big brother. As for the CZ-83, its the sleeper of the bunch. It might be easy to dismiss it due to it's small caliber, but I won't. Its ergonomics feel like a CZ should, it points like a CZ should, and most of all, it shoots like a CZ should. This pistol without question has the best trigger of any of my pistols, and its accuracy is as good as it gets. No doubt in some part to its excellent sights. My 83 is an earlier model with the ramp front sight, giving the pistol a dot-bar-dot sight picture. I find its front sight exceptionally easy to aquire. And for rapid fire, this pistol lets me put the most shots in the smallest area with the least effort. If the Maks weren't slimmer and shorter, the 83 could easily be my back-up piece. Also, just for grins and giggles when I was shooting the 9mm carbine, I decided to see what the 83 would do at extended distance. I bullseyed my first snap shot at 50 yds. And at 75, using an off-hand Weaver, I was able to keep all five shots on the paper, with three ending up inside the '8' ring. One of the shots was right on the '9' ring border, and one was one the '10' ring border. Dan Tobin told me this was his most accurate 83 when he sold it to me, and he was right. I was unable to duplicate my results with any of my other pistols, until I used the 75B with the plus-P-plus Speer ammo, and supported my elbows on the range bench. What a great little gun. And finally, the HS2000 didn't disappoint me either. I'm approaching 1,800 rounds through it without a failure. And it still feels as tight as the day I bought it. The really neat thing about the HS the other day, was its recoil. I fired it immediately after the CZ83. I expected a jump in recoil, but afte the 'snappy' recoil of the straight blow-back CZ, the HS2000's recoil almost felt less, giving more of a 'push' instead of a jolt. Really a pleasant pistol to shoot. I think the grip angle, along with the low bore axis and the double recoil springs, really help control it's recoil. It might not be a bad pistol to try, if you're somewhat recoil-shy, or if your better half would like to shoot a 9mm but is worried about recoil. I was never a big polymer pistol fan, but I am definitely a fan of this one. At well under $300, it almost makes me giggle. And speaking of price, what does it say about Eastern European value, when the most expensive pistol there (the PCR) is only about $400. There's a lot of crap out there that cost's more than that. And after the PCR, the next expensive gun is the 75B at only $309. Those of us in the know are laughing all the way to the gunshop with the money we've saved over the more expensive big names. Ahh, life is good... Take care all. Marko

Subject: Gluecklich Geburtstag! (nt) From: BRS To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 21:59:45 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Danke Schoen! (nt) From: Marko To: BRS Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 01:24:08 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: nt

Subject: Happy B-Day Marko!.... From: Pilot To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 13:02:21 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: Isn't it great when you can go to the range and just blast away to your heart's content! Ahh, life is good. Pilot

Subject: Re: Happy B-Day Marko!.... From: Markus To: Pilot Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 19:12:31 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Happy 40th! Sounds like you had a great day with a nice collection of guns. Add that Cz52 to your list and fire a few rounds and then you may have the range all to yourself. Take care.

Subject: My Mosin-Nagant M-44... From: Marko To: Markus Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 01:28:26 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: ...Add that Cz52 to your list and fire a few rounds and then you may have the range all to yourself... --- My Mosin M-44 carbine usually does the trick. Especially if I use the Barnaul ammo. If the BOOM doesn't scare the heck out of them, the ball of flame coming out of the barrel usually does the trick... ;) Thanks Markus. Take care. Marko

Subject: HAPPY 40th B-DAY, Marko! From: SlimTim To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:51:09 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey everybody, the April Fool Jokester is 40 today! Have a happy one, Mark-o! PS: If you get a special delivery package that smells funny, I didn't send it! :-) ST

Subject: Re: HAPPY 40th B-DAY, Marko! From: denfoote To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 03:12:37 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 40!!!! Hell, I passed that 5 years ago. That makes you just a pup. Be careful with all them shoot'in irons young'in, you might just hurt yerself. Happy Birthday Marko!!!!!

Subject: Re: HAPPY 40th B-DAY, Marko! From: Dave in PA To: denfoote Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 12:44:03 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko, happy birthday! I just turned 41 mere days ago and can relate. At least I know I'm in the company of other 'mature' folks. Dave

Subject: Thanks denfoote! (nt) From: Marko To: denfoote Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 03:25:58 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: ntxt

Subject: Thanks Pal! From: Marko To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:59:33 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: ST: Thanks for the birthday wishes. As a matter of fact, in order to celebrate, when the clock struck midnight I went out on the back porch and lit up a primo cigar, hand rolled from Cuban tobacco in a little custom shop in Toronto. Just me and the occasional sound of a truck in the distance, heading down Rt. 885. And at 11:00pm at the end of this day, I'm going to light up another and do the same so that I'll have started and ended my milestone in fine fashion. If the neighbors weren't so darn close I'd have fired off 40 rounds of 9x18! Thanks again, and I'll keep an eye out... err, I mean a nose out for that package. ;) Take care. Marko

Subject: There you go again...... From: Pussball To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:19:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: ....posting those informative and entertaining range reports that make me want to IMMEDIATELY go out and spend more money on guns! Please, from now on include in the topic of all future range reports the following warning: 'Pussball - read at your own risk! The following post could cost you serious money!' This time it's the CZ-83. The last time it was the PCR, and the time before that, the HS2000! I happened to be browsing in one of my favorite gun shops last Thursday when I spied a NIB blued CZ-83 for $209! That's a GOOD price! To say the least, I was seriously tempted!!! I managed to get out of the store that day without spending any money (trying to curb my impulsive buying habits), but I've been checking prices on the internet and thinking about that pistol all weekend. And now I read your post and I'm thinking what a dope I was for not scarfing that baby up right there on the spot! THANKS A LOT, MARKO!!! Guess where I'm going tomorrow..... :-) Regards - Pussball

Subject: I hope you're not too late From: Marko To: Pussball Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:38:32 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Gee Pussball, I'm sorry that I seem to be enabling your addiction... ;) In all seriousness, I hope you're not too late on the CZ83. $209 is not a great price for a NIB pistol, it's an incredible price. That's around $100 less than the going rate. Heck, it's only slightly more than Dan Tobin was selling his used ones for, and I thought those were a bargain. Be sure to let us know if you get it, and let us know what you think of it. Once a few other 'must have' pistols get aquired, I think I'm going to get myself a 9x18 version of the 83. Take care bud. Marko

Subject: Re: I hope you're not too late From: Pussball To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 18:34:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It was gone. I guess some other astute individual saw it, and scarfed it up! Oh well, he who hesitates.....

Subject: Re:Happy Birthday, Marko, from me and thd kids! From: OneShot To: Pussball Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 20:16:06 (EDT) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: Hey Marko! You are right, the CZs are a great gun. I love my new 75B Mil so much it has become my 'go to' gun. It has even gone into my nightstand for things that go bump in the night. I love it so much I'm thinking of adding a satin nickel 75B for contrast. (OK my wife wants one..only the 'pretty' one!) Plus my Miltex kids wanted to say happy birthday and thank you for feeding my mania. By the way, I did pick up that SE two tone, it just needs a bath before I take some pictures. I have a bunch more pics I'll post soon.

Subject: Be sure to tell the 'kids'... From: Marko To: OneShot Date Posted: Tues, May 01, 2001 at 01:32:36 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Before you tuck them in for the night, be sure to tell the 'kids' that Uncle Mark said sweet dreams (and make sure they ask for another brother or sister soon)... ;) Thanks bud. Take care. Marko

Subject: Gunbroker Has Ruskie Military From: Robo To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 19:19:58 (EDT) Email Address: Narkocop@aol.com Message: Gunbroker has a Russian military with no import markings for sale.It's at $200- hasn't met resereve.What's it worth?

Subject: Re: Gunbroker Has Ruskie Military From: Pete To: Robo Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 21:44:52 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: depends on how badly someone wants a Soviet military makarov, just going by the prices i've seen, 300-400 dollars

Subject: Re: Gunbroker Has Ruskie Military From: denfoote To: Pete Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 02:59:06 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: $300!!!!! At that price, I'll just convert my IJ70-17A to 9x18mm for $60!!!!! I was wanting to get a Russian Military, but not at those rates.

Subject: How about an East German instead? From: SlimTim To: denfoote Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 18:03:15 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If you didn't like $300 for a Russian PM, I bet you won't like this either. It was on GunsAmerica's new listings one day last week. NOTE: This is NOT MY LISTING, so don't gripe at me! --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Pistols - German: --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Model Name: East German Makarov Price     : $395.00 Seller    : FREDERICKSBURG PAWN Contact   : http://www.gunsamerica.com/gogetgun.cgi?gun_number=976107787 Description: East German Makarov in excellent cond. with unissued leather shoulder holster, the nicest I've seen, beautiful deep dark blue. Bill Flynn Fredericksburg Va. No Photo Yet

Subject: Re: Gunbroker Has Ruskie Military From: Frenchy To: Pete Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:30:32 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Empire Arms has them for $395.00, and they are as nice as you will find.

Subject: Help w/ E.G. fix From: McPhil To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 17:50:38 (EDT) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Arcom helped diagnose a no fire issue as the decocker slightly moving to interrupt hammer drop and have a no fire in single action but being able to fire in double action. What is the fix for this issue. TIA McPhil

Subject: Re: Help w/ E.G. fix From: Greg S. To: McPhil Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 02:13:02 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: McPhil!! Remove safety and lightly polish the spring underneath. Then tweak it carefully out some more so it has more force going into the detents in the slide. You might want to lighlty polish the inside edges of the detents also to help ease the effort of moving the safety on and off. Greg S.

Subject: MAKs for lefties From: stand watie To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 16:27:23 (EDT) Email Address: n3ohs@hotmail.com Message: does anyone know of a company making LH holsters for the MAK?

Subject: Re: MAKs for lefties From: pa To: stand watie Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 17:44:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Kramer makes different kinds of left/right hand holsters. Their 'Confidant Shirt Holster' for deep concealment is also a left/right set-up. There are probably many other makers, but these are what I know of. Used to have a 'few' extras that I didn't really care for, but sold most of them. Now if you had a Glock 20-21, I have a brand new IWB #3 that you could have for 1/2 price... ;^)

Subject: Re: MAKs for lefties From: Frenchy To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:35:25 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Look at the 'Falco' at Makarov.com!!

Subject: How to tell date of manufacture From: John-C To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 11:02:08 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey anyone know how to tell when a E German Mak was made? thanks

Subject: Re: Below the safety...ntx. From: Frenchy To: John-C Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:32:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: How to tell date of manufacture From: CW To: John-C Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 12:08:26 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They are usaully dated on the gun. Look for the number towards the back of the frame. They drop the 19 part of the year. -Chris

Subject: Method of carry From: blazerfan To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 19:45:22 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: For those of you that carry concealed, what holster setup are you using? If you use in the waistband, do you carry it up front, or in the small of the back? As you can tell, I don't currently carry, but am planning to in the near future. Sorry for the newbie type questions. Even with the maks small profile; placed in the holster and tucked into the waistband seems rather tight and uncomfortable. Should pant size increase by a size to allow for more room? Suggestions....? Thanks.

Subject: Re: Method of carry From: jimH To: blazerfan Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 17:38:22 (EDT) Email Address: jimh59@aol.com Message: Every day,at work,at stores,in cars.....none.No holster. My EG goes naturally in front of strong side hip,inside pants.Guess that's why Al Bundy likes to slide his hand in that way..it just fits :).Guess it's one of the few good things about bein a southpaw..the safety faces outboard.The grip stops it from goin down one way and the safety also catches the beltline to keep it from goin down the other.This is the only way I have found that it stays put day-in-day-out without a rig.A golf shirt goes over the front,preferably darker colors,thicker than t-shirt fabric,and long enough to stay lower than waistline at full extension reaching up as high as I can.Light colors in solids and thin fabric do not shroud as well the tell-tale angles.FWIW.Fanny packs on apparel that already has pockets is advertising probably armed and might raise curiosity with co-workers for one.But no big deal.Whatever the choice might want to give an extended trial around the house until comfortable and confident in a myriad of everyday functions.Happy shooting, jimH

Subject: Re: Method of carry From: denfoote To: blazerfan Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 16:55:52 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I carry my Makarov in a Yaqui belt slide holster. One very simular to the one seen in that Afgan photo that was posted last week. Cover it with a loose t-shirt, and presto!!! As touching where on the belt: right behind the hip bone is perfect for me. The muzzle of the pistol points at the top left corner of my right back pocket. For IWB carry, put the holster in the same place. It needs to have a 45 degree cant.

Subject: Re: Method of carry From: mick-dawg To: blazerfan Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 15:34:53 (EDT) Email Address: mick-dawg@juno.com Message: I carry my bulgie on a custom pocket holster from Ken Null Holsters. I regurlarly wear loose pants and shorts so this fits my style, especially when I carry my 1911 in a iwb at the same time. The 1911 is on the strong side, and my mak in my left pants pocket. I also have an iwb with extra mag pouch from Desantis. Since I have a gut, when I am wearing just an untucked t-shirt I carry with the Desantis right over my pants pocket. I too have a falco double rig, the horizontal kind. Now I want a horizontal one. My special box of failed holsters is marked 'Big Daddy's Stuff' and it is till under my bed. blessings, mick

Subject: Re: Method of carry From: arcom To: blazerfan Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 09:12:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Where I live (NY metro area), folks get somewhat apprehensive if they see a pistol packin person not wearing a uniform. My experience is once you become comfortable with a particular carry style, it becomes a part of you and you tend to forget about it. Maybe a little bit of grip pokes out from under your shirt, or your jacket opens up enough so some person spots a shoulder rig. Bingo... In goes a 911 call, out comes the 'man with a gun' run. I was at the library once intently going through the card catalogue and jotting down notes when I noticed a bunch of blue trousers and black oxfords around me. 'Wazzup, guys? Oh, that thing poking out of my pants? Well, sailor, I'm just glad to see ya!' You get the picture. I was mortified. And probably spent a few seconds in mortal danger without ever being aware of it. Point is, someone saw my weapon and called 911. It was stuck in the back of my jeans with a tee shirt covering it and while bending down to open a catalogue drawer, the shirt momentarily rode up over the butt. That was all it took. Shortly thereafter, I bought a fanny pak and have used one ever since. There are compromises in using it, but there are also advantages over more traditional carry methods. For me, it was the not-so-perfect best choice.

Subject: Re: Method of carry From: Nazman To: blazerfan Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 23:34:02 (EDT) Email Address: dnaslanic@email.msn.com Message: blazerfan, I've carried my Mak in several disfferent ways, depending upon conditions. By that I mean I use the Falco double shoulder rig when I'm driving on a trip (best way to acces the gun in a car), I've carried it IWB with a Don Hume holster, and I've carried it in a front pocket with a Mika pocket holster (pleated pants, and I'm rather thin, so it doesn't print). The best advice is to try a few different holsters and see what works bets for you. I know that can mean some wasted money, but we've all done it over time. Look at your clothing styles - do they lend themselves to IWB? Do you often wear a shirt untucked? If you often wear a sweater or jacket, maybe a shoulder rig is for you. Have fun, Nazman

Subject: Re: Method of carry From: Noel in the Great NorthWet To: blazerfan Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 22:25:23 (EDT) Email Address: nmorgan@pop.nwnexus.com Message: I most often use a Falco IWB, in leather with a snap break that I got from Karl at Makarov.com. I carry it on my strong side, right behind the outside seam belt-loop on my jeans, (ie. behind the hip bone butin front of the rear pocket of my jeans). Then I angle the grip about 30 to 45 degrees forward, (sort of a radical FBI canted carry). Works best for me, your mileage will vary. :-) Existing loose fitting pants are okay, but you might want to add an inch in any new pants, (espcially 'nice' or 'formal wear'). Kiss tight fitting jeans goodbye, unless you use a shoulder rig or an outside the belt (exposed) holster. My alternative carry is a dual shoulder rig; holster on the weak side, dual mag holder on the strong side. I am not convinced that a dual mag holder is necessary, however when loaded it helps to counterbalance the weight of the Makarov. When I carry using the IWB, I just drop a magazine in each outer jacket pocket. The added weight helps on flipping the jacket back when drawing. Just acquired a Falco cross-draw holster, but it's too soon to tell how workable it is for me. Hope this helps a little. Moral is to get your hands on every holster you can, and see what works for you. Like most folks who carry, I have an extensive library of holsters that didn't work for me. :-) Noel in the Great NorthWet

Subject: dusty holsters. From: Wildtim To: Noel in the Great NorthWet Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 23:56:12 (EDT) Email Address: Wildhausk9@msn.com Message: I find that for me the iwb holsters only work in the small of my back no matter what the model of holster, or gun for that matter. I'm thin (read about a 31 waist) so almost any pants must be let out about an inch to carry comfortably for me. On a related note if any lefties out there have any shoulder or balt holsters gathering dust on your shelves, i'm looking for more options as well. post here or e-mail me.

Subject: IWB thumbbreak holster..reversible? From: blazerfan To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 19:22:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I just purchased one of Karl's iwb thumbbreak holsters. I believe it's supposed to be reversible, is there a secret to removing the clip? I guess it helps to be smarter than the holster (which I'm not I guess!). Thanks.

Subject: Re: IWB thumbbreak holster..reversible? From: Wildtim To: blazerfan Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 23:48:08 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well... first you lift the belt clip, then you slide a popciclle stick up between the back of the clip and the inside of the clip loop as far as you can get it finally you pull the clip off the top. getting it back on is much easier.

Subject: Fiocchi 9x18 Mak From: Richard To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 18:43:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: anybody ever used this ammo it's expensive ! most other Fiocchi ammo is good stuff but would like to hear from somebody who's has used it . before i shell out nearly $13 a box ...

Subject: Re: Fiocchi 9x18 Mak From: denfoote To: Richard Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 17:06:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yeah, it's good stuff, but it is expensive. I don't know why though. There is nothing special about it in any way. In fact, compared to say, Cor-Bons, it's inferior as a defense ammo.

Subject: Re: Fiocchi 9x18 Mak From: SlimTim To: denfoote Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:37:33 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I kind of agree with that, but at $11 for a box of 50, compared with $12-$13 for a box of 20 Cor-bons, it's carry ammo you can afford to practice with, at least a little bit. I like the profile of the JHP, much like ball so no feed problems. Expands OK too as far as I can tell. The Fiocchi JHP is good enough in my book. SlimTim

Subject: you need to try the Barnaul From: serger To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:42:32 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I swear the Barnaul hp is, how do you say it in english? Bullet proof!! I love the stuff and with 500rds in one of my circle10's w/o a failure of any kind it's my choice.

Subject: Been there, done that From: SlimTim To: serger Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:56:02 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've shot 150 rounds or so of the Barnaul JHP. It shoots ok, smells kind of funny, and the lacquered cases flake off and build up if you shoot very much of it. The Fiocchi is brass cased, no lacquer, and smells, well, like fired ammo. Both are good, but again, I like the Fiocchi JHP, particulary for the JHP ball-like profile. ST

Subject: Re: Fiocchi 9x18 Mak From: Paul To: Richard Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 20:21:21 (EDT) Email Address: santafe66@excite.com Message: anybody ever used this ammo it's expensive ! most other Fiocchi ammo is good stuff but would like to hear from somebody who's has used it . before i shell out nearly $13 a box ... --- It shoots well. Hot but accurate. Cases are reloadable. I paid $11.99 here in Albuquerque. If you want good HP ammo try the Barnaul from Dan's (through the Makarov.com site). I've also found it at ammoman.com for $115/1000, that's $5.75/50, shipping included.

Subject: Re: Fiocchi 9x18 Mak From: Wildtim To: Paul Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 23:45:08 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: For my money the wolf is better just as hot and accurat but less than half the price.

Subject: Anyone know of a source for sleazy Maks? From: jefferson101 To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 10:15:36 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I need a couple for project guns. I hate to take a perfectly good, almost new Mak and start messing around with it. I should have gotten a couple of those AIM had, but I waited a bit too long. Spent all my play money on a rifle last month, and the cheap Maks went too fast! I'd prefer ones that function, but the finish can be totally crapped out. That's going to change anyway, so as long as there are no massive rust pits it's cool. Barrel condition is sort of immaterial too, since at least one will be getting a new one. I would, of course, prefer not to pay a bunch for them, but within reason that's not a big issue. I'm just psychologically inhibited about refinishing a gun that doesn't need it. EG's would be ideal, since I'm C&R and could get them shipped direct to me. These things are addictive. I got my EG, and then stumbled over a Russian. Decided to go ahead and get a Bulgie to complete the set of military issue ones, then I'd be done. Ha Ha. Now I'm coming up with customizing projects I want to do on them. So I need at least 2 more. They're breeding like rabbits here at my place. I guess you never have all the Maks you need, or at least it doesn't look like I ever will.

Subject: Re: Anyone know of a source for sleazy Maks? From: CoorsLightGuy To: jefferson101 Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 18:35:48 (EDT) Email Address: coorslightguy@aol.com Message: Your collection is NOT complete. Don't forget the Chinese version. At least, I'm pretty sure they had both a military and commercial model.

Subject: The Pimpmaster aka SlimTim is your man! HaHa!. From: Markus To: jefferson101 Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 12:13:10 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: No soup for you either, Markus! (ctxt) From: SlimTim To: Markus Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:49:09 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Chattanooga paper today (Sunday) featured the Redneck Riviera in it's travel section. How close are you, across the bay? Ever been to the restaurant owned by Jimmy Buffet's sister? --ST

Subject: Lee SWC bullet mold From: Greg S. To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 01:40:39 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Here is image of some bullets molded today for Makarov. The Lee mold works great and bullets look good!! Greg S. members.home.net/jomama1/Mak_SWC.jpg

Subject: Re: SWC rounds From: Greg S. To: Greg S. Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 02:01:48 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Weight runs ~ 95.2 grains Rounds feed correctly in My Bulgarian and Russian Maks. Greg S.

Subject: Question for reloaders From: SlimTim To: Greg S. Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:53:22 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: This may be taboo for liability reasons I imagine, but I got to ask. Any of you reloaders with the molds for the SWC interested in whipping out a batch of ammo for a non-reloader? I'd like to at least try a box. It might be a bad thing to do though, I may want more! -- ST

Subject: Re: Lee SWC bullet mold From: Tony E To: Greg S. Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:45:35 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyenglert at hotmail.com Message: Nice! How do they look loaded? -Tony

Subject: What's the weight? From: serger To: Greg S. Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 02:08:37 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: they look like they are 85 grainers. What's their weight.

Subject: Stupid Question about CZ-52 Trigger Enhancement. From: WMFlash To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:22:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey, I know the tirgger enhancement for the CZ-52 undoes the firing pin safety. Does that mean I should never carry cock and locked again? I live in a very rural area and I find it useful to carry out the open, sometimes. Should I make sure not to carry with a round in the chamber, now? I do have the decocker fix on my '52 ( ZZ marked on the trigger guard). Any opinions?

Subject: cz52 slide wobble From: brianp To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:04:51 (EDT) Email Address: brianp@kivex.com Message: I just picked up two more CZ52's from SOG. One has me a bit concerned though, the slide whobbles a bit. I own two other CZ's including this one, and neither of them whobble. Should I be concerned in firing this thing?

Subject: Re: cz52 slide wobble From: WMFlash To: brianp Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 20:09:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What do you mean by wobble exactly? Does it do it with any other slide, or only the one that came with the gun? Hmmmm...it's so hard to get an idea of these problems over the web...

Subject: SlimTim From: Dean To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 18:55:06 (EDT) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: Did some business with SlimTim and want to let you folks know he goes the extra mile (more like 90 round trip!)to take care of his end of a deal. Never worry about dealing with ST. Let's hope he has a terrible tax bill again next year. Maybe if we all start buying a dozen EG polishing cloths a week we can put him in a higher tax bracket.

Subject: Nooooooooo! From: SlimTim To: Dean Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 00:59:12 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Not going to happen! My withholding has been corrected! As for Dean, he has the patience of a saint. Besides, the side trip was for my convenience, used an FFL to send the item. I've got 2 guys who've paid for polishing cloths that don't have them yet that might disagree with you. They are coming guys! Tomorrow. Hope to get some more this week too. -- ST

Subject: Re: SlimTim From: CoorsLightGuy To: Dean Date Posted: Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 18:38:39 (EDT) Email Address: coorslightguy@aol.com Message: That's just because he has no life. Hehehe....seriously, if you're the guy he met down at Randy's in Tunnel Hill....it was no big sacrifice, Guns of Yesteryear is one of our favorite stops. It's like a damn museum....he should charge admission.

Subject: Wrong guy, CLG From: SlimTim To: CoorsLightGuy Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:04:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Dean is in OK. I neglected to say that Dean's comments about me more aptly describe himself, doubly so. Great guy to deal with, and kept communications up despite being on the road with a faulty laptop. Dean is tops! Thanks for reminding me about the guy on the Norinco, need to email him thanks and see if he is coming to the Atlanta show. -- ST

Subject: Re: Wrong guy, CLG From: CoorsLightGuy To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 15:02:23 (EDT) Email Address: coorslightguy@aol.com Message: My mistake.....the 90 mile comment threw me off. Oklahoma huh? Hey Dean....you got a front row seat for Timmy's (not our SlimTim) execution in May? If so, you should auction it off on Ebay.

Subject: A new firearm ebook : The DWM Lugers !!! From: gerard To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 14:46:06 (EDT) Email Address: hl-ebooks@skynet.be Message: We are very glad to announce you the issue of our most recent E-book. The DWM Lugers. Most Lugers collectors and knowledgable amateurs in the field of handgun collecting are probably aware of the German firm DWM and its role in the development of the Luger. But, many of those who will one day have a WW II Mauser made Luger may not have any idea of the history of the development of the Luger which begun during the 1890's Download address : http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/ebook/eluger2.htm Content of our E-book The firm DWM - A brief history - The firm LOEWE und Cie - The Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik (DM) - The Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken AG (DWM) - The Berlin-Karlsruher Industrie-Werke (BKIW) - The Industrie-Werke Karlsruhe (IWK) - Hugo BORCHARDT - Georg LUGER The evolution of the Borchardt pistol - The Borchardt pistol - The Borchardt hold-open device improvement - The Borchardt improved model of 1909 - The mysteries about the 1909 model - A patent for a trigger mechanism From the Borchardt to the Luger pistol - The roots of the story - DWM requested that Luger undertake the redesign - The chronology of Georg Luger earliest involvement - The transitional models until the 1898 model Luger's patents and the issue of fakes - The list of the German patents granted to Georg Luger - The difficulty to unmask some of the very well made fakes - How fakers are helped in their evil work. - The 'pre-production transitional/prototype 1900' US fake - The fundamental problem with exposing fakers - It is now very difficult to fault their machining and re-finishing - One of the most interesting Luger patents explained The DWM commercial production - Part I - Commercial production 1900-1918 (serial numbers & quantities) - The Swiss DWM Lugers - The Dutch Lugers - The Bulgarian Lugers The DWM commercial production - part II - The Russian Lugers - The Portuguese Lugers - The Bolivian Lugers - The Brasilian Lugers - The Mexican Lugers - The French commercial Lugers The DWM German Military production - Production figures, by models and periods - Naval Lugers - Standard military Lugers - Lugers long (Artillery model) The DWM Luger's markings - Commercial and military proof marks - Unit markings - Recall of the post WWI German History - The death's head marking Post WW I DWM production - The law of 1920 - the 1920 marking explained - Estimated production and serial blocks - The weapons supply office ( Waffen-Amt ) - The specific markings of the period - The foreign commercial market - Stoeger import - The new commercial serial range with a suffix letter - The Commercial production from 1921 to 1928 (figures) - Abercrombie & Fitch Lugers - The Finnish Lugers Transitional period before transfer to Mauser - The armament of the German State Polices - On January 30, 1933 Hitler was appointed Chancellor - Refurbished Lugers - The Naval Lugers markings - Production of the transitional period 1929-1930 (figures) - The WaA66 acceptance markings A rare piece of 'History' - That kind of historical piece that makes experienced collectors happy - Current value of the DWM Lugers Our other ebook available : - The Luger Mechanical features (US $5.95) - Aimed Point Shooting (US $3.95) - The Nagant revolvers (US $4.95) - The Savage 1907 pistol (for free) - Firearms and Related Topics Bibliography (for free) Our site : http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/index.html

Subject: Anyone bought any of these? From: SlimTim To: gerard Date Posted: Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:07:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's the deal? What are they like? It's a Belgian sight, are the books in English, or Southern Redneck even? Worth the miniscule price? Thanks for any opinions. SlimTim

Subject: GUN SHOW GREENGATE MALL-GREENSBURG,PA.MAY 5&6 From: Bills Guns To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:09:00 (EDT) Email Address: WLP97@AOL.COM Message: P.G.C.A. GUN SHOW AT GREENGATE MALL-GREENSBURG,PA.OFF RT. 30 EAST-5 MILES EAST OF EXIT 7 OF PENNSYLANIA TURNPIKE.HOURS ARE 8-5 SATURDAY & 8-4 SUNDAY.LOTS TO SEE!I WILL HAVE FRENCH MAS 49/56 IN 7.5 CAL.LIKE NEW CONDITION.STOP BY AND SAY HELLO-BILL.

Subject: Makarov slide From: Eric Anderson To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:11:09 (EDT) Email Address: lmanderson@excite.com Message: Does anyone know where I can find a Russian or Bulgarian slide online? Thanks all.

Subject: Re: Makarov slide From: SgtMaj13 To: Eric Anderson Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:40:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Karl had them at makarov.com for $55.00.

Subject: Re: Makarov slide From: Noel in the Great NorthWet To: SgtMaj13 Date Posted: Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 22:28:03 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: He's out of stock now. has been for a month.. :-(

Subject: Pierce Grips From: denfoote To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:48:02 (EDT) Email Address: denfoote@yahoo.com Message: Well, I went and did it. I outfitted both my Makarovs with Pierce Grips. I have to say, they impart a different 'feel' to the pistol. I like the reduced felt recoil, although they did not solve the original problem that I was having, namely recoil bite on the second knuckle of my strong hand thumb. The frame right at the beaver tail rubs the knuckle when the pistol fires. In a self defense situation, it will not be noticeable, but after a couple of hundred rounds, (I expended 500 last weekend) it starts to be a bother. I think shooting gloves might be the answer. One good thing is that with the Pierce grips, my accuracy has improved. One bad thing is that due to the thickness, and composition of the grips,(the rubber snags on the lining) my Maks are no longer pocket pistols. Oh well!!!

Subject: Re: Pierce Grips From: SgtMaj13 To: denfoote Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 08:10:39 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Are you using the finger rest magazine floor plate? I've found they allow a lower less cramped grip thus eliminating the thumb problem for me. A Forbus paddle or Falco IWB holster should help with the carry problem or you can just switch grips as needed or one Mak for carry and one for range. Just some thoughts for what its worth.

Subject: Re: Pierce Grips From: Lawpup To: SgtMaj13 Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:04:12 (EDT) Email Address: michael@ev1.net Message: I just adjusted the way I was gripping the gun to solve the thumb problem. I let the gun ride a bit higher in my hand. It did not affect accuracy, but, if you try this, HOLD ON! The little buggers have quite a wallop to them. To me, that's why they're so satisfying to shoot.

Subject: Re: Pierce Grips From: SKY To: Lawpup Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 13:15:22 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I had the same problem & fixed it by letting the gun ride higher in the hand also. This increases the lever arm & therefore the torque (flip/recoil) is also increased. SKY

Subject: Price check; new Russian PM From: Ross To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 00:53:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: At a show last weekend, a dealer had a brand new Russian Mak for $200. I think it only came with one magazine. I have been away from this board for awhile. Is this a fair price? TIA.

Subject: Re: Price check; new Russian PM From: SgtMaj13 To: Ross Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:59:12 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If Russian commercial w/adj sights it's over by $25.00 for eastern PA. If milsup Russian PM it's under by $200.00 for anywhere. If Russian milsup for $200, buy it quickly. HTH

Subject: Commercial w/ adj sights nt. From: Ross To: SgtMaj13 Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 15:19:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: OT, my shotgun From: Lizard To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:39:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have a 1952, 3 round bolt action Kessler Shotgun. I am thinking about selling it so that i can buy new toys, does anyone have ANY idea what it's worth, or where i can find out? I checked just about every website i could think of

Subject: Re: OT, my shotgun From: RonD To: Lizard Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:23:49 (EDT) Email Address: rkdenzer@worldnet.att.net Message: What gauge? Bolt shotguns do not bring much, however I am looking for a cheap .410 for pest control. Ron.

Subject: 12 gauge From: Lizard To: RonD Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:02:19 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: OT, my shotgun From: MAB To: Lizard Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:40:19 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: S.P. Fjestad's 20th anniversary Blue Book of gun values names sa price of $90.00 if the gun is in perfect condition; $35.00 if less than 90% condition.

Subject: Re: OT, my shotgun From: Lizard To: MAB Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:38 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Damn, not worth much at all then...

Subject: Re: OT, my shotgun From: pa To: Lizard Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:40:57 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey Lizard. Don't go by some of these Blue Book prices on firearms. Some prices are right on the money and some are not even close. Ever notice that the dealers at the show pull out the oldest Blue Book that they have and quote you a price from it for your trade? Here's some prices from the 20th Anniversary Edition. How about a 100% Swedish Model 1894 Carbine for $450? A 100% Model SA-85M AK for $350? I have seen these sold at double these prices. I sure would like to find these prices. =^)

Subject: Re: OT, my shotgun From: Lizard To: MAB Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Damn, not worth much at all then...

Subject: Re: OT, my shotgun From: Lizard To: MAB Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:02:50 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Damn, not worth much at all then...

Subject: love my browser From: IE KING To: Lizard Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:04:20 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Full From: Makman To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 18:28:30 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It must be a full moon,a couple of the posts are starting to howl ! MM

Subject: On another subject - CZ 52 From: Eric Marsh To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 17:51:49 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: Just picked up my CZ52 today. How do you remove/replace the firing pin on one of these things?

Subject: Mac's new TUFF-GUN Finish! From: Mac's! To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:46:11 (EDT) Email Address: shootiniron@msn.com Message: Hello All! We are now offering our new TUFF-GUN Finish Process, in addition to our regular Gunkote Finish Process. Please visit our web site for more info. Thanks, Mac. shootiniron@msn.com Mac's Shootin' Irons www.shootiniron.com

Subject: I figured out what happened to my Mak From: Eric Marsh To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:41:08 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@austin.rr.com Message: I took my Mak apart again this morning and studied the motion of the hammer in the frame. The problem is definately the frame. There is wear on the hammer but it is not significant. Some of you may remember that a while back I posted a message saying that my Mak's action was dragging. What happened is that the frame had become worn enough for the trigger to start to move around in it. The bevel inside the frame contributed to this. Once this wear got to a certain point the trigger's pivot started putting presure on the inside of it where the frame is beveled. From here it appears that things started to deteriorate quickly. The pressure actually pushed some of the frame's metal outward, causing a high spot which caused the slide to drag until I polished it down a bit. So this gun needs a new frame if it is going to be used to any significant extent in double action mode. I think that in single action mode there are no forces pushing the hammer forward so it should be just fine. I bought the gun from J&G a couple months ago and don't want to take a big loss on it. I'm going to see if I can sell it and recover a fair amount of my initial cost then pick up another Mak. If I can't recoup most of my expense on this gun I may just keep it as a range gun. Eric

Subject: Happy ending, I think From: Eric Marsh To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 15:56:10 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: J&G got me in contact with Century Arms, their supplier. Amy at Century was very nice and is going to fix or exchange the gun for free. Eric

Subject: Great! nt From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:43:43 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Global Trades russian frames 70.00 From: serger To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 14:50:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: they've got stripped russian frames. FWIW.

Subject: I'm talking to J&G now From: Eric Marsh To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:12:48 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@austin.rr.com Message: and I think we are going to work something out. Eric

Subject: Re: I figured out what happened to my Mak From: arcom To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:42:43 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Eric--I would speak with someone up the management chain at J&G. It's very unlikely the frame wore and more likely it was simply drilled incorrectly when first made and consequently was defective when they shipped it. I think an exchange is well warranted, especially if they inspect it properly. I don't think selling it will recoup and significant amount of your investment since essentially it's just good for parts. Good luck. Good luck.

Subject: Re: I figured out what happened to my Mak From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:34:51 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, glad to hear you were able to identify the problem, but sorry to hear that it is the only part you can't get cheap replacements for. Maybe somebody here would sell you a frame relatively cheap....I wouldn't try to sell a defective gun to somebody unless they absolutely positively understood the problem. You might even be successful getting J&G to exchange it, or maybe a partial refund. It's too bad you got a rare bad Mak. They are really great guns; I wouldn't own 2 if they weren't!

Subject: I figured out what happened to my Mak From: Eric Marsh To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:40:51 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@austin.rr.com Message: I took my Mak apart again this morning and studied the motion of the hammer in the frame. The problem is definately the frame. There is wear on the hammer but it is not significant. Some of you may remember that a while back I posted a message saying that my Mak's action was dragging. What happened is that the frame had become worn enough for the trigger to start to move around in it. The bevel inside the frame contributed to this. Once this wear got to a certain point the trigger's pivot started putting presure on the inside of it where the frame is beveled. From here it appears that things started to deteriorate quickly. The pressure actually pushed some of the frame's metal outward, causing a high spot which caused the slide to drag until I polished it down a bit. So this gun needs a new frame if it is going to be used to any significant extent in double action mode. I think that in single action mode there are no forces pushing the hammer forward so it should be just fine. I bought the gun from J&G a couple months ago and don't want to take a big loss on it. I'm going to see if I can sell it and recover a fair amount of my initial cost then pick up another Mak. If I can't recoup most of my expense on this gun I may just keep it as a range gun. Eric

Subject: My new Russian PM From: ccmano To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:55:37 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: Just got my new Russian military Mak from Empire arms. Other than a few scuffs here and there (as advertised) this gun is brand new, I'm very pleased! It has no import marks and otherwise is marked only with the serial number CT 61XX, a line within a triangle within a circle, date 1983 and a scripted 'M'. That's it, thats all there is on the gun. Only negative is that the magazine is non matching (again as advertised). This puppy wasn't cheap but I think as a non-import marked, unissued Mak it's a good investment. I'll post some pic's when I get a chance. Hans

Subject: Re: My new Russian PM From: denfoote To: ccmano Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:30:42 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: How much was it???? (drool drool, pant pant) I would love to get my hands on a Soviet non-comerical Makarov!!!!

Subject: Re: My new Russian PM From: ccmano To: denfoote Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:41:09 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: www.empirearms.com is where I got it. A very reputable milsurp dealer. Price is $395 plus $25 shipping. I talked to him on the phone and out of the 124 he bought he only has a few left. As I said mine was great.

Subject: Re: My new Russian PM From: tarnagulla To: ccmano Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 04:01:09 (EDT) Email Address: p&akeogh@ncable.com.au Message: Is it your first Mak? If so, take time to get used to it - with practice you get the hang of the military grip, and despite the shortish barrel and rather rudimentary sights (by commercial standards, anyway) they are very, very accurate and reliable little pistols, which more often than not will shoot right on the point of aim.

Subject: Re: My new Russian PM From: Tovarich To: ccmano Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 19:26:51 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sweet! Enjoy your new acquisition, comrade!

Subject: Pachmayr Pistol Pocket Cleaning Kits-Cheap!-$10.50 From: Lippman Enterprises,Ltd To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:59:16 (EDT) Email Address: lippy@francomm.com Message: Pocket Size Handgun Cleaning Kits Pocket size molded case measures only 4 1/2' x3 1/2' x 1 ' and has everything you need to properly clean your handgun in the field. Comes with a 2-piece brass cleaning rod, brass wire-bristle brush, a soft natural bristle brush, a gun oil storage vial, a jag tip, an oil mop and a tip adapter. It can be seen at http://www.lippman-enterprises.com/art/pachmayr-cleaning-kit.jpg Part #03092 -all .22 calibers Part# 03093- all 9mm, .357 and .38's Part# 03094- all .40, .41,.44 and .45's Suggested Retail $17.98-Your Cost 10.50 +5.00 Shipping and Handling Buy all 3 for $27.50 + 5.00 Shipping and Handling -I offer all Lyman, Pachmayr, TacStar Butch's and A-Zoom Products at discounted pricing and quantity discounts available. If you see something you want and need a quote-just let me know! -B-Square Guaranteed for Life Gunsmith's Tool Kit $16.60 ea + 6.00S/H -Visa,MasterCard Amex, Paypal ,Check , Cash or Money Order . Thank you, Bob Lippman Lippman Enterprises,Ltd. P.O. Box 134 Palenville , N.Y. 12463 Ph-518-678-3519 Fx-651-324-1398(direct toComputer) E-mail-lippy@francomm.com Website- http://www.lippman-enterprises.com http://www.lippman-enterprises.com www.lippman-enterprises.com/fobus.html www.lippman-enterprises.com/art/pachmayr-cleaning-kit.jpg

Subject: mak firing pin From: Ron To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:39:07 (EDT) Email Address: rbrm79@aol.com Message: Does anyone make a retainer spring for the firing pin I just dont trust it.

Subject: Re: mak firing pin From: Wildtim To: Ron Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:16:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The best thing you can do is to not worry about it. To help (or hurt) your memeory remember that most 'retaining' spring only have a few ounces of pressure. they are there more to retract the firing pin for the gun to more easily cycle than to HOLD it back if dropped.

Subject: Re: not yet, ctxt From: Greg S. To: Ron Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:59:21 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Dropped two Russians and a Bulgarian from a measured meter onto hard rubber mat over concrete. Dropped onto muzzle, grip, hammer, left side, right side, and top. At no time did the Mak set off a primer. The pin is just to light to set off modern primers in good condition. Greg S.

Subject: Image Test..... From: Frenchy To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:43:48 (EDT) Email Address: steveh@socket.net Message: Sorry guys! Just wanted to try this out!!

Subject: How about now? From: Marko To: Frenchy Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:18:30 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message:

Subject: How about now? From: Marko To: Frenchy Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:15:50 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Frenchy: You had a space between '=' and 'http' in your picture's address. Run them together. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Oh well...didn't work! From: Frenchy To: Frenchy Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 23:50:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Third time's a charm From: Marko To: Frenchy Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:20:32 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message:

Subject: Re: Third time's a charm From: Dr. Picture Post To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:52:38 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Third time's a charm From: Dr. Picture Post To: Dr. Picture Post Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:54:30 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: No it's not. Photopoints says no such... From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:24:06 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Frenchy: Are you sure that's the correct address. I tried accessing it through Photopoint, and they said no such picture at that address. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: It's there..... From: Frenchy To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:03:15 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It's in my albums. I see Dr. Picture Post pulled it up. I hate HTML!! Thanks Doc! 8^)

Subject: Feed Ramp Picture From: M To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:40:38 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have heard so much about the polishing of the 'feed ramp'. My Mak seems to feed the ball ammo fine (600 rounds or so). I would like to start shooting some hollow points and have read that they may not feed reliably. Could someone with a digital camera take a picture of this area to be 'polished'and post it on this site. I believe I know what and where to do this but want to make sure I do it right. Thanks

Subject: Re: Feed Ramp Picture From: arcom To: M Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:01:55 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I don't know about this.....it may just be my particular quirk, but I've polished all the ramps on my Maks save the Russian commercial models in which I only shoot ball ammo. My two Bulgarians had ramps that I could clearly see how poorly they were machined. My concern was how they would feed JHP ammo after 100 rounds or so when the innards get all nice and sooty. However, IMHO the biggest potential detriment to feeding JHP ammo is the angle at the bottom of the ramp where it meets the forward wall of the magazine well. It's easy to see how JHP ammo, some of which has a very flat nose, could hang up. I use a chain saw file and just two or three draws to cut the angle enough to allow big mouth bullets to make it from the magazine and smoothly up the ramp without hitting any speed bumps. Remember, these pistols were never designed for a diet of JHP ammo. The fact that 90% of them will feed JHP ammo right out of the box is evidence of their versatility and reliability. But because 10% won't is enough for me to do a couple minutes of work.

Subject: Re: Feed Ramp Picture From: Texwolf To: arcom Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:20:23 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My experience. Both my Maks are Bulgie-babies. Out of the box, ball ammo yes, JHP NOPE! I started the clean up process with a Dremel, and finished it with emery cloth. The machine marks on the ramp were pretty awful, but allowed ball ammo to feed consistently, as designed. I wanted to get consitent, reliable feeding of JHP, so I opted for the ramp job. I allowed about 700-800 rounds of FMJ 'wearing' before I did this job, just to get a feel for the reliability. I've since put about 5000 rounds through it consisting of a diet of Hornady Custom HP, Russian FMJ, Corbon, and just about everything out there. And in regards to the 'how will it feed when it's really dirty?' I let it ride about 200 rounds one day, and fed a 'cocktail load' through. The 'cocktail load' consisted of staggered FMJ and JHP, and not a single one jammed or misfed. As a matter of fact, I ran 4 clips through in this configuration. Hope this helps.

Subject: Re: Feed Ramp Picture From: TENNESSEEAN To: M Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:44:31 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Try it first without polishing the feed ramp, most Maks will feed anything you put in them. TN

Subject: I concur. From: serger To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:19:40 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: try out a box before hauling out the Dremel. The circle10's I've got feed anything. And if you have feeding problems use a different magazine. Lots of feeding problems are the mag's and most people don't know it. Also number your mags so you can identify problem children.

Subject: MAK cleaning kit needed From: Ed To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:37:11 (EDT) Email Address: jetei@aol.com Message: H, I am looking for a EG issue Mak cleaning kit. Does anyone have a extra one or know where I can obtain one from? I as in the US Army in Berlin Germany from 76-80. I never dreamed I would someday own a EG MAK. I think I got the last laugh. Ed

Subject: Re: MAK cleaning kit needed From: Greg S. To: Ed Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:45:57 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Ed! Check it out !! EG kits from Makarov.com Also, browse around the .com site! A veritable cornucopia of Mak data, courtesy of Karl..... Greg S.

Subject: Interesting wearing of PM From: Felix Dzherzhinsky To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:35:54 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://afgan.ru/31/mfoto12.htm

Subject: Re: Interesting wearing of PM From: denfoote To: Felix Dzherzhinsky Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:27:31 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's so unusual about it????? It looks like a Yaqui belt slide holster. I carry my Makarov that way. Triple K makes it. It's model 246-61. It also fits the G26, but the PM fits better. :) Hats off to our Afgan friends for having good taste in firearms!!!!

Subject: Re: Interesting wearing of PM From: tarnagulla To: Felix Dzherzhinsky Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 04:06:50 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Looks a lot like the friendly and helpful staff at my local Tax Department Office - on a good day.

Subject: picture From: Pete To: Felix Dzherzhinsky Date Posted: Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 00:51:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Is that Apoo behind the counter? From: MickeyD To: Felix Dzherzhinsky Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:44:58 (EDT) Email Address: mmixon@ev1.net Message:

Subject: EG Reworks From: K To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:57:11 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Guys,I would be willing to bet that when the STAMPED numbers match on the major parts like the triggerguard and frame,and the ENGRAVED numbers match on the slide and frame,that it was reworked for the NVA by the Suhl factory.When it comes to weapons,Germans are by the book,period! While the pistol I have does have 2 sets of numbers,the engraved ones were not hacked into it by someone working for an importer who makes $8.00 an hour.These numbers were done by someone who took great care in placing them.The Suhl mark on the slide could have been used as a proof mark,like the N over the eagle (WW2 as well as post war).Guns that have all mismatched parts might have been assembled from parts on hand after reunification,and prepared for export.Knowing the Germans well ( I married one),these guns were tested as well,but with no army to issue them to,were not marked so carefully.A good gauge to use in this deduction is the wartime P-38s that have been on the market for the last 10 years or so.The DDR reissued many,and when it was needed,reworked them. Just a thought.

Subject: Re: EG Reworks From: Kernel To: K Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:32:45 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thats my post..forgot to put the full name in

Subject: Re: EG Reworks From: Kernel To: K Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:32:28 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thats my post..forgot to put the full name in

Subject: My Mak really is defective - what can I do? From: Eric Marsh To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:03:49 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: Ever since I owned my Bulgie, its double action trigger pull felt funny. It tended to tighten or bind up near the end of the pull and sometimes would do other wierd things. I disassembled the gun the other day and really studied it. During this process I noticed that the right side of the hammer pivot is pulling out of the frame. I measured it and the gap opens up as far as about .055' (that would be 1.38mm for you metric guys.) I looked at another Mak and talked to someone about it and apparently my gun is indeed defective. I'm going to try to attach an image to this message that shows how the shaft. If it doesn't work you can find it at http://home.austin.rr.com/nokidding/makarov_gap.jpg. Does anybody have any thoughts on this? Can it be fixed, or do I have to relegate this gun to single action only, which makes it useless for a carry weapon. Your thoughts and ideas are appreciated. Eric home.austin.rr.com/nokidding/makarov_gap.jpg

Subject: Re: My Mak really is defective - what can I do? From: BigMak To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:48:07 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If it goes bang everytime I personally wouldn't let it bother me much. I would simply buy another one and put it up somewhere for later. That is what I did. I figure #3 will likely be in the same condition for my grandkids as it is now. Just my 2 cents, since I don't know how bad the thing is. Good luck!

Subject: Re: My Mak really is defective - what can I do? From: BigMak To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:39:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I checked both of my Circle 10's last night after reading this thread. Both of their right side hammer pins cam out slightly. So far it hasn't caused me any heartburn. I would buy another just like em. I paid ~$150 tax title and license. My ~$800 Colt isn't much better, if it is better. I like my Maks....

Subject: Thanks for the feedback so far From: Eric Marsh To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:24:29 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: I'll pull the gun apart today and get some dimensions. However at this point I'm convinced that the frame is the problem. I bought the gun a couple months ago from J&G and I have about $150 into it including the FFL an extra magazine and shipping. Right now I'm trying to see if I can work something out with them to replace the gun, though they don't have any more in stock. If that doesn't work then I may try to sell it and get another one. I could even just keep the gun - it functions, just the trigger doesn't feel right when I do a double action pull. Eric

Subject: Re:Dimensions... From: Greg S. To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 04:41:43 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Dimensions: Bulgarian: Frame/hammer holes: .158'' #21 drill bit go (tight!), #20 bit nogo. Hammer pivots: .157'' Sear/frame holes: .118'' #32 bit go (loose fit) #31 bit nogo Sear pivots: .117'' Play in hammer barely visible <.005'' Russian: Frame/hammer holes: .159'' #21 drill bit go (tight!), #20 bit nogo. Hammer pivots: .156'' Sear/frame holes: .118'' #32 bit go (loose fit) #31 bit nogo Sear pivots: .116'' Play in hammer barely visible <.005'' Seems like you do have a problem child. First one I've heard of. Check the holes with the numbered drill bits as specified above. If the #20 goes in, the frame/hammer holes are to big. Pivots on my guns are cylindrical, not tapered. If yours have a taper longitudinaly you might try a new hammer. Greg S.

Subject: Re: Working on dimensions... From: Greg S. To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:15:52 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Definitely seems like excess play to me. As others have said, either hammer or frame is bad. If frame is the culprit, youd be better off buying another gun. Unless, a gunsmith could weld it over and redo the holes cheaply. It could be done. It's just a matter of cost. I'm taking apart my 2 Russians and Bulgarian and will post dimensions toot suite. Greg S.

Subject: Re: Working on dimensions... From: Greg S. To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:14:20 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Definitely seems like excess play to me. As others have said, either hammer or frame is bad. If frame is the culprit, youd be better off buying another gun. Unless, a gunsmith could weld it over and redo the holes cheaply. It could be done. It's just a matter of cost. I'm taking apart my 2 Russians and Bulgarian and will post dimensions toot suite. Greg S.

Subject: Re: My Mak really is defective - what can I do? From: PM To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:00:43 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The hammer on my Circle 10 works good, but it's so roughly finished that I couldn't polish it smmoth, so I tried 3 different hammers from my Armorers kit, and each one did that, but wouldn't even drop the hammer it was so bad. So I live with a crappy trigger. I've looked at a couple other of my Maks, and they all rock the hammer on the right side a little, but not that bad. I'd try a different hammer, and if that don't work, the frame might not be machined right. Pat

Subject: Re: My Mak really is defective - what can I do? From: Tyler To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:26:20 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If you have another Mak, try putting it's hammer on this gun, if the gap is still there, it's the frame, and you have a fishing weight. If not, then it's the hammer, which Karl sells for $11. Seriously, if it's the frame, you can buy another gun cheaper than you can get this one repaired or buy another frame. You could sell it to an unsuspecting dealer, who would sell it to another unsuspecting soul or keep it as a spare parts bin.

Subject: Re: My Mak really is defective - what can I do? From: Kernel To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:29:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I had a problem that was almost the same on a German P-38.Take it apart,and replace that part.It may be your trigger is worn.I agree with both other posts on putting the mic to the parts,but if its badly worn,you can sometimes spot the problem upon total disassembly.The part on my P-38 was so worn it was very shiny,look for evidence of this.If you know a GOOD gunsmith,and one you trust,ask his opinion as well. Hope this helps. Let us know!

Subject: Re: My Mak really is defective - what can I do? From: TENNESSEEAN To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 20:10:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It looks to me like the frame is worn but I agree with IJ70 that you should disassemble the gun mike the parts and compare them against the other gun. As for the frame a good gunsmith could repair it but I'm afraid the cost would be more than another gun. You may be able to find another frame but again cost would be the factor. Hate to say it but the best thing might be to strip the parts, save them and find another gun. TN

Subject: Things you can do. From: IJ70 To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:59:04 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I agree the hammer pivot and the other pivot that is to the righ of the hammer are too loose. I am looking at the same points of my Russian comercial as I type this and the pivots fit in very tight. Two things come to mind. First is that parts, hammer and the other part that has pivot to the right of the hammer, are worn out or out of spec. The other thing is that frame is defective. There is third thing, but it is too unrealistic. If you have access or may be someone will post the numbers here, measure the parts of that other PM and see if your parts are close. This will allow us to determine if parts are worn out. Replacing parts is much easier then replacing frame.

Subject: Re: More things you can do. From: BRS To: IJ70 Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:35:48 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If you have access to a set of machinist's drill bits down to 64ths of an inch, you can use the unfluted ends of the bits as pin gages to determine how much the pivot holes in the frame are worn. You must have some measurement capability to determine the 0.055' gap, so mike the journals (pivot axles) of the hammer and the sear, and compare those dimensions with those of your other Mak. Pin gaging the frame and miking the hammer and sear journals will determine the defect. If the journals are worn, parts are available fairly inexpensively from Karl here, and probably from other board 'members'. If the frame holes are worn, I would have a gunsmith drill them out the next largest size in-line to true them up, and then weld up the journals on a hammer and sear, turn them down to match the new frame holes, and re-heat treat them as needed. Now all that will cost probably as much or more than a new Bulgie. You might consider buying another Bulgie and keeping the parts off the worn one. HTH, sorta BRS

Subject: I have no idea, but great picture. NT From: Lizard To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:27:11 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Cole Distributing German 9x18 question. From: jefferson101 To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:30:32 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Has anyone had any experience with this ammo? It's reasonably priced, particularly if you buy an entire 3200 round spam can full. I realize that it may well be corrosive. That isn't a problem for me. I shoot all sorts of old milsurps anyway, and so am well equipped and experienced in dealing with that issue. I'm more interested in the accuracy and reliability of the stuff. So far, I haven't found anything that I thought was as consistent as the Barnaul HP, but would like to have some reliable FMJ to shoot, too. It would of course help to find it reasonably priced. S&B shoots good, but is 50% higher in price than most of the others. That's a bit on the high end for me for range ammo, since I'm burning up 200 to 300 rounds a week. Any experiences, comments, or other suggestions on FMJ stuff?

Subject: Re: Cole Distributing German 9x18 question. From: Greg S. To: jefferson101 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:06:24 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: You may not be interested in reloading, however, you can reload and save some money. I admit, with the current prices so low, you won't save much. With the best deals, you might not even be able to match the price! You can tune a load for your gun and reload jhp corbon like rounds for 25% of the cost. also, at 200-300 rounds a week, you would save a bit over time. Another thing is that I just like the feeling of shooting something I loaded and made myself. I have 7.62x54R rounds that group ~5/8'' at 100 yards. Greg S.

Subject: Re: Cole Distributing German 9x18 question. From: pa To: Greg S. Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 03:11:18 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Greg, shooting a M39, Romak 3, 91/30 sniper? I shoot 7.62x54R the most. Have a 'few' Finns. After all, been hangin' out at Tuco's for a few years. ;^)

Subject: Re:Lurking.... From: Greg S. To: pa Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 04:19:31 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Yo! PA, I lurk at various boards. don't really have time to post every where! Got a Russian Tiger carbine. Bought it ~1995. After researching the barrel length and twist at ak.ru boards, figured out it was a Dragunov SVDS without the flash hider. It has the Russian Army issue wooden skeletonized stock and wooden hand guards and PS02 4x scope. Definitely an illegal assault weapon in the PRK (Peoples Replublik of Kalifornia). It's funny how they pass a law and a law abiding, peacable citizen becomes just another criminal for the liberal commie grist mill legal system. The bullets it likes are the heavy ones. ~9 in 1 twist. I load up 174 grain Sierra Matchking .303 British bullet, 53 gr IMR4350 powder and WLR primers. 50 gr Vhita Vhouri Oy 150 works well also. Some are puzzled as to the bullet choice. .303 british in a 7.62x54R rifle? This is where sluggging the bore comes in handy. My Russian slugs out exactly .312'' (three ways) .303 Brit is .311'', a perfect fit.

Subject: Re: Cole Distributing German 9x18 question. From: MSW To: jefferson101 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:30:28 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've shot about 1000 rounds of Coles EG ammo and never had a failure. It's hot and pretty accurate. I use the #21 recoil spring in my EG Mak and have shot a fairly good grouping at 12 yards. It doesn't do too badly at 25 yards either. It's good practice ammo.

Subject: Re: Cole Distributing German 9x18 question. From: Kevlar44 To: jefferson101 Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 17:53:58 (EDT) Email Address: Kevlar4410@excite.com Message: I like this ammo alot.I have shot about 500-600 rounds of it out of my two East German Makarovs.I have had one 'fail to fire'out of the lot.After inspection I found it was due to a primer set to deep.I could see two tiny marks where my firing pin barely touched it(I recocked for a second try).Other than that the ammo has been great.It feeds well,fires well,and is quite accurate.It is loaded to military specs and it feels more powerful than the Barnaul HPs and the LVE fmj stuff.It is stout but not 'hot'.It has a nice report and gives the palm of your hand a good smack.It is corrosive ammo but from my experience it must be mildly so.I just clean with regular bore cleaner as I do with non corrosive ammo.I have not seen any rust from this practice. Kevin If you would like to see how this ammo groups follow the URL below for a pic.It is from last summer.I have other targets with cleaner groups but have not scanned them yet.There was a hole in the wood behind this particular target wich made it ragged.the flier was me not the ammo. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=944020&a=7196867&p=24418239&f=0

Subject: Color Makawraps From: Karl To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:32:11 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: Check these out, guys. I got some samples in, but no stock. I like the brown one because it's not too far off some of the Red Star grips. -Karl makarov.com/graphics/makawrapcolor.jpg

Subject: Re: Color Makawraps From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Karl Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:23:50 (EDT) Email Address: smith.don@att.net Message: Wouldn't it be nice if an aftermarket grip mfgr would duplicate the red-star grip color? I think it makes the gun look great, but it's uncomfortable (for a leftie).

Subject: Is the one on the left.. From: Kevlar44 To: Karl Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:01:40 (EDT) Email Address: Kevlar4410@excite.com Message: hot pink or blaze orange?I couldn't look at it long enough to tell.All I can see now are spots:) Seriously:I like the brown one alot.I think it would look better on a stock Makarov than the original greyish color.

Subject: Just promise... From: Marko To: Karl Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:57:50 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Karl: Just promise we won't be seeing Charles Daley Hot Pink or Kel-Tec Electric Blue... ;) Seriously, I kind of like the brown one. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: why not Hot Pink From: TENNESSEEAN To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:25:57 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I know where there's a pimp gun that would look good wearing hot pink. HEE HEE TN

Subject: Re: why not Hot Pink From: SlimTim To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:40:23 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ooooooooo! No soup for you! And I want my 9x18 Type 59 back! ST

Subject: Re: OUCH!!!!!! From: TENNESSEEAN To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 22:30:48 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Dat hurts! TN

Subject: Ha! That was beautiful, TN. From: Marko To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 22:27:38 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Wonder how long it's going to take him to reply? By the way, I alsmost spewed my coffee over that remark... :D Take care. Marko

Subject: You guys are just jealous From: SlimTim To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:41:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . and jealousy is not pretty! ST

Subject: Oops, no EG cleaning cloths for me! From: Marko To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 23:54:05 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: . . . and jealousy is not pretty! ST --- ...and neither are pink grips!

Subject: Re: hoohaaa! From: Greg S. To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:52:31 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: We ought to petition Karl to donate the pink one to our favorite pimperizer. Then he could post a picture of it here!! ;) Greg S.

Subject: In a word . . . . From: SlimTim To: Greg S. Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 20:43:05 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: NO! ST

Subject: I'll do it From: Karl To: Greg S. Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 02:54:28 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: ...now was it ST that had the gun...sorry, brain is mush. -Karl

Subject: Re: Yep!! ST was was one ;) From: Greg S. To: Karl Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 04:44:16 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message:

Subject: black.?? From: bullet44 To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 15:37:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Like the makawrap but how about a black color rather then the present dark grey.??perhaps close in color to standard Hogue grips.

Subject: They _are_ black From: Karl To: bullet44 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 00:02:12 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: They look black to me...maybe the pictures make them look grey. -Karl

Subject: Mak Makeover Questions From: JHP To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 08:18:20 (EDT) Email Address: hollowpoint@zensearch.net Message: Just a few quick questions as I start my Makarov Makeover. 1) Just how hard is it to get the barrel pin out? I did everything but pull out the 8# sledge on it last night! 2) Has anyone found a good way to remove the blueing from inside the gripping groves on the side of the slide? I tried 360 grip folded to a sharp point, but that doesn't get in the corners. TIA! -JHP

Subject: Re: Mak Makeover Questions From: Karl To: JHP Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:35:40 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: Try Kano labs Kroil on the barrel pin. Brownells.com has it. -Karl

Subject: Household Rust Stain Removers From: Marko To: JHP Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 11:35:30 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Household rust stain removers, like the kind you would use on rust stains in your toilet or sink, will do the job. Also, some ceramic tile grout cleaners will work. I'm pretty sure that oxalic (sp?) acid works. No matter what you use, just be sure to follow the directions on the bottle for safety and clean-up. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Mak Makeover Questions From: Aardvark To: JHP Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 08:33:24 (EDT) Email Address: art@aardvarkarms.com Message: JHP- Try some 'Naval Jelly' on the blueing-will remove it post haste. Try attacking the pin from the other side; haven't had any problem in the two mak's I've taken the bbl pin out, but on some other guns the pin may be tapered. Art

Subject: Bianchi Holsters for CZ-52? From: Mike P. Wagner To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:52:47 (EDT) Email Address: mikepwagner@nc.rr.com Message: A guy talk.shooters claims, 'The gun [CZ-52] fits perfectly in a Bianchi Askins Avenger for the Beretta 92.' Can anyone verify this?

Subject: IDK Sight Stickers From: Pussball To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:40:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Picked up a new digital camera a couple of days ago and I'm learning how to use it. So, here's a picture of my favorite EG with the IDK 'stick on' sight dots from Karl. Prepped both sights with acetone, then applied clear fingernail polish to the rear sight (to act as adhesive), followed by the sight dots. Used white fingernail polish on the front blade. I know this procedure has been posted before, but I thought this was a pretty cool picture, so here it is again! Regards - Pussball

Subject: Re: oops, here's the pic From: Pussball To: Pussball Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:41:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: oops, here's the pic From: pa To: Pussball Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 02:13:41 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Pussball, now those are some dots you can see! My son has some coming from Karl. I will have to try them now.

Subject: east german mag pouch From: mgjohn To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:01:01 (EDT) Email Address: j_poulos@excite.com Message: I am looking for 2 East German rain drop pattern Makarov mag pouches. I need to complete a hoster belt combo.

Subject: Anyone need a Miltex 'Special Edition'? From: pa To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 22:54:21 (EDT) Email Address: payeager1@home.com Message: I know...I just got it. But I have a chance to get another Mak that I have wanted for a time and now I need some extra cash. I'm selling the Arsenal Miltex 'Special Edition' 9x18 with 2 matching # mags. No box yet, but if I receive it, I will send it along. Wish that I could say it was new, unfired, but I shot 2 mags full out of the Miltex and my two other newest Maks this afternoon. I would like $225 plus $15 shipping, BUT, (I only have until Saturday for the other Mak)if you would send a Postal MO and copy of FFL to me by overnight mail, send me $220 and I will get the shipping. Need to send it to a 01 FFL only. Thanks. miltex albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1204853&a=12671121&p=47140193

Subject: Re: You mean I missed one?!? From: OneShot To: pa Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 18:24:10 (EDT) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: Serioulsy folks, if I didn't already have an all blued SE I wold jump on this. Great price for a real rarity. BTW, Marko, your influence is showing. I went back to that little shop outside of Indy and picked up that two-tone SE. That makes four Miltex SE buys I've stumbeled on in 4 months! It all started with that little .380 I almost didn't keep...thanks..like I needed another affliciton. Also, I took some nice pics of the first 3 SEs. How do you post on here? I forgot. Feel frre to e-mail me the info if you don;t want to clog up the board

Subject: Bulgarian Mak range report - mixed results. From: tree To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:30:15 (EDT) Email Address: 45acp@klondyke.net Message: Well I finally made it to the range with my new Bulgarian Makarov. I went out for the purpose of cycling some ammo through both mags and attempting to gage relative shootability and accuracy, and reliability. Accuracy: At 10 -15 yds...when I did my part with a steady front site hold, the gun could keep them in a 3-4 inch group. A couple shots were within 1/2 of each provoing the gun is more accurate then I am. Shootability: The recoil was rather mild, although the Bularian Makarov grips started to punish a bit after 100 rds. I did not find them condusive to comfort, but they were adequate. Reliability: wonderful to start with. I shot about 30 rds of WOLF ball ammo with one mag without any problems. I then switched to another mag I loaded with Hornandy HP ammo I planned to carry for CCW and it cycled them like with ease. I proceeded to shoot about 30 rds of Wolf Ball ammo with this mag without failure. I loaded another 8 rds, and tried to release the slide release. It would not budge. The bullet appeared to have moved 1/4 inch but just stayed there. there was inadequate spring tension to jam the round home so the slide was stuck open. I cleared the mag and worked the action. No problem. The slide was closed when I shoved in the same mag topped off with 8 rds of ball ammo. I pulled back the slide and darned if it did not jam open again. Failure to feed. I eventually got the mag to feed a round, and occasionally experienced the same failure to feed at the beginning of the mag and in the middle once or twice. Upon examination it appeared the mag lip might have bent in slightly more on the left than my other mag. Perhaps this was causing some additional tension on the bullet. If perception was true it was not much of an increase. Of course maybe I made the lip deformation up. I will look them over tonight when I clean up everything. It could also be the bullet tip (ball) is catching on the front of the mag. It should be noted I tried the first magazine after this episode,with several full mag loads. Not once did the gun jam or fail to feed with this mag. Other Observation: With a full mag, and a open slide, upon forceful insertion of the mag, the slide would trip easily and close on the round. If I eased the mag in no trip of the slide was experienced. A simple palm of the hand shove of the mag base would trigger the slide forward. Question: Is this normal? The wolf ammo seemed really dirty, as there is plenty of powder residue to clean up on the throat. I will likely need to get some more mags, and also shoot a bunch more ammo to establish some comfort or reliability. Sorry to ramble on... but I have heard such glorious praise of the Makarov. I like mine, I just have to figure out if the problem is indeed the one mag. Tree.

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak range report - mixed results. From: Denny To: tree Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 15:15:54 (EDT) Email Address: rjdenny@iupui.edu Message: As far as the forcefull insertion of the mag problem...it is not a problem per say. My Bulgarian Mak does it. My Glock 23 does it. Most any semi-auto will do it. It is not a problem. I am a police range instructor and show people to use this tech. to save time in a stress situation. I have never seen any harm come from it.

Subject: Sounds like mag's bad. From: serger To: tree Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 02:11:11 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I tell everyone who'll listen to number your mags so you know if one's giving you problems. Then you'll be able to isolate lots of problems to a specfic source. Maybe I've gotten lucky but the 2 circle10's I've got shoot anything and don't care. If you decide to use joe dremel remember he's good at taking but hates to give metal back.

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak range report - mixed results. From: Branch To: tree Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:36:20 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Tree! Bulgarian: This one was bought already slicked by Nolan Innovation. It has a great action, very smooth and light. It had a tendency to stick on Corbon and other wide profile JHP rounds. (maybe 1 out of 100 rounds) I had to stone the inside of the magazine feed lips and touch up the feed ramp polish to get 100% reliable feeding for 100% of all types of ammo. One box stock Russian gun I did this also. The second Russian Mak worked fine out of the box, but as I was on a roll, I did it too! It works fine. If you do a feed ramp polish look at the spot where the bullet leaves the magazine and hits the ramp. you may need to round this down quite a bit. The slicked up Bulgie had a teeny weeny crown (edge) right at that spot. I touched it up lightly and it fixed it. Also polished the top opening of the chamber a bit to let the round chamber easier. Greg S.

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak range report - mixed results. From: PM To: tree Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 22:00:31 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Other Observation: With a full mag, and a open slide, upon forceful insertion of the mag, the slide would trip easily and close on the round. If I eased the mag in no trip of the slide was experienced. A simple palm of the hand shove of the mag base would trigger the slide forward. Question: Is this normal? --- Don't think it's supposed to normal, but my Circle 10 does it, too. Only does it when it's good, and hot, though. Pat

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak range report - mixed results. From: TENNESSEEAN To: tree Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:39:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Simple throw that mag away, they're chaep. Probably the same one that release the slide when slamed home. Tip, the slide release should be used to hold the slide open, to load a fresh round pull the slide back and release it. This prevents wear on the slid release points. Buy a Pearce grip for extended shooting, they're cheap too and the trigger will get better as you shoot it more, accuracy will improve with the trigger. Enjoy it. TN

Subject: Re: I agree w/Tennesseean! From: jefferson101 To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 16:37:45 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I bought ten Mak mags a while back, and had one that did this refusal to feed the first round thing about every other time I used it. I messed with the feed lips, I messed with the spring, I messed with everything. Finally, after a dozen or so incidents, and no cure in sight, I did what I should have done in the first place. Cursing the mag all the while, I stripped the rounds out of it, dropped it on the concrete, and stomped on it several times. Then I picked it up and threw it in the trash. How much frustration are you willing to put up with for $5? They made plenty more, and almost all of them work fine. I haven't had a problem with any of the others.

Subject: Re: I agree w/Tennesseean! From: tree To: jefferson101 Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 21:20:20 (EDT) Email Address: 45acp@klondyke.net Message: Sounds like the solution. Thanks to all for the ideas.

Subject: EG Mark From: Kernel To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 20:47:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The mark is below the date,its a capital V with 4 dots over it.Is this from an inspectors check? Or mabey an arsenal rework stamp? The numbers on the triggerguard match the frame under the grip,but there is another number on the slide.Is this the number for importation purposes? Need some help on this one!

Subject: Re: EG Mark From: TENNESSEEAN To: Kernel Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:31:36 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The V or it looks like a Y on some guns is probably a inspectors mark, whether when new or as a rework take your choice. Personaly I think it's a rework mark. Notice the numbers on the slide and trigger guard are stamped, orig EG numbers, IMO. Other numbers are for import purposes. Other marks O in the diamond (Suhl factory) D-100 in the rectangle (Germand military). Now a question for you are the internals of the gun numbered probably 2 or 3 digits and do they match the last 2 or 3 digits stamped in the frame and guard and what year if you don't care? This is for a data base I'm building. TIA HTH TN

Subject: Re: EG Mark From: pa To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 23:27:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: TN, the EG that I got a few days ago must be a rework. Mine has an 'a' in a circle of 8 dots below the '61' date, a K100, K49, K24 and an OK6, all in rectangles on different parts. It does have the 'o' in a diamond on the slide, barrel and frame. The sear, trigger bar and mainspring all have different numbers and none of them match the stamped matching numbers on the trigger guard and frame. Don't know how, but hope this helps. =^)

Subject: Re: EG Mark From: Kernel To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 22:01:05 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: TENNESSEEAN, OK,these are the marks:O in diamond,this is on the triggerguard,as well as on the slide behind the saftey. As I wrote before,the triggerguard and frame match,these numbers are stamped.After close inspection,the slide is engraved with a different number,but this same number also appears on the frame over the grip,and is proceded by the letters AR.The V with dots is below the year (61).I found 2 numbers inside the weapon,these are also ingraved,but do not match.The slide is marked so lightly,that it can barely be seen.Its my guess that this weapon was reworked by Suhl,then reinspected for issue.My wifes parents live in the former DDR,so next time I go (next year) I will make a trip to the factory to see if I can get some better info.Thanks for your help! Let me know what you can find as well.

Subject: Re: EG Mark From: TENNESSEEAN To: Kernel Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 22:30:54 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Is there a D-100 in a rectangle, should be on the left side of the frame right above the trigger. Could be overstamped by Germany, the stamping moron at CAI sometimes does this. Good luck in gathering info on your trip. TN

Subject: Re: EG Mark From: Kernel To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 22:44:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes,there is a D-100.Its not been overstamped

Subject: CZ-70 extra mags From: Brian To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 12:43:56 (EDT) Email Address: brian.clark@rtswright.com Message: Looking for a source for extra CZ-70 mags. Any suggestions?

Subject: Re: CZ-70 extra mags From: mordecai To: Brian Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 18:34:11 (EDT) Email Address: annullarium@yahoo.com Message: www.marstar.ca

Subject: Makarov convention Atlanta May 5 From: SlimTim To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 22:51:15 (EDT) Email Address: slimtim@makarov.com Message: Several Atlanta and surrounding area residents have agreed to meet at/after the Eastman show at the North Atlanta Trace Center on May 5. This has been discussed on the Makarov email list, but I don't think I posted it here. If you are in the area or have plans to attend this show (around 900 tables of guns & related items)please email me! We will probably meet at a nearby dining establishment after the show, plans are yet to be firmed up. So far, TDM, George Fisher, Deputy Dawn, Mouser, CoorsLightGuy (hopefully)& myself have all indicated we will try to make it. --SlimTim

Subject: Re: Makarov convention Atlanta May 5 From: CoorsLightGuy To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 17:02:07 (EDT) Email Address: coorslightguy@aol.com Message: I'm sitting at 50/50 right now. I may have to take my daughters, main squeeze and her daughter and a friend to a concert, but its not definate. If not, then I'll be there.

Subject: email list? who what where? nt From: Lizard To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 13:37:42 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Same for Harrisburg, PA show From: Marko To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 23:54:04 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hoping to meet up with Karl, BRS, Guard, and anyone else going to the Harrisburg show on May 5. Pilot, you going to make it? Take care. Marko

Subject: Yes, I plan on attending! From: Pilot To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 12:56:34 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: Marko, Yes, I plan on going to the HBG show on May 5th. Is there a time everyone is meeting at Karl's table? If not, just let me know when you think you'll be there. Looking forward to it! Hope some others can attend. Rev Rob are you giving the sermon? Pilot

Subject: My tentative agenda (BRS? Guard? Others?) From: Marko To: Pilot Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 01:48:02 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Pilot: Glad to hear you'll be there. Tentatively, I want to arrive at the show early. I plan on leaving Pittsburgh around 5:00am, so that would put me there by 8:30 or so. And I'll probably stay until around noon, so anytime in between is fine. Let's hear what some of the others have to say about their schedules. I know I'll be meeting up with BRS at some point. Also still waiting for Guard to check in here. But regardless of who we meet, and what time we meet, I would think Karl's table will be the place to meet. Agree? Take care. Marko

Subject: Tentative agenda ; opens 9AM From: BRS To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 06:08:48 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko, others: The show opens at 9AM, if you get there at 8:30 you're close to the front of a very long line by 9-9:30. I'll figure on getting there about the same time. Maybe when everyone checks back here, we can find a time to all meet at Karl's. I'll need to go about noon also, and I'm kicking around heading home via Greensburg for a double-header. Must be nuts. BRS

Subject: That makes two of us From: Marko To: BRS Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 11:39:35 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: BRS: I'm kicking around the idea of the Greensburg stunt too. Marko

Subject: You guys are amazing... From: Pilot To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 12:24:18 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: I've done a gun show and a gun shop in one day, but never two gun shows in one day!!! Now, one time I borrowed a car from a girl I was dating to take another babe out, but that's an off topic story from my college days... :) Pilot

Subject: Re: You guys are amazing... From: SlimTim To: Pilot Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 19:48:02 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I regularly do two shows a day a couple of times a year. In Nashville, competing promoters always seem to schedule their shows on the same weekends twice a year or so. As for May 5-6, that weekend I have to choose between 3 shows: Atlanta (which I'll go to Saturday), Chattanooga (small show, but nearest to home) and Nashville. Not sure what I'll do Sunday, perhaps try to take in the other 2 (about 2.5 hrs. apart) or I may even go back to Atlanta. The fever is strong! There haven't been any shows around me for 4 or 5 weeks, and now this! -- ST

Subject: No, BRS is king From: Marko To: Pilot Date Posted: Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 13:54:11 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Pilot: No, BRS is the king. The Greensburg show is just off the turnpike on my way home from Harrisburg. But BRS has to go OUT OF HIS WAY to hit that show... ;) And as for your college story, don't fret too much. I once went to a sorority dance with one girl, left for the bar with one of her sorority sisters, then left for an after-hours party with that girl's roommate. And managed to keep all of them from getting mad at me to boot. Ahhh, college... Take care. Marko

Subject: Marko, you da MAN! (nt) From: Pilot To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:10:22 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message:

Subject: Improving the sights on the CZ-52. From: WMFlash To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:38:22 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ok, so, there is a trigger upgrade, a slide release available, and several ways of improving the grip. But, are there any relatively painless (and hopefully inexpensive) ways of improving the sights?

Subject: Re: Improving the sights on the CZ-52. From: Karl To: WMFlash Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 00:06:28 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: Sight jobs are never painless and inexpensive unless you're just adding dots (e.g. IDK) or such. Once a gunsmith or machinist get involved, it's the same price for a 1911 as it is for a Makarov or CZ-52. Having said that, I'm exploring some CZ-52 sight options with a local gunsmith. He's already put together a tricked out CZ-52 with Magna-Porting and Novak rear sights, etc. Once we get a nice demo gun together, I'll be offering that service at Makarov.com. BTW, in the absence of slide blanks for Beast slides, we'll be offering the same on your Makarov slides. Again, I want to get a demo slide together and some pricing before we move ahead with this. -Karl

Subject: Re: Improving the sights on the CZ-52. From: TENNESSEEAN To: Karl Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:53:01 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Man this news is gooder'n grits, have at it. TN

Subject: Re: Improving the sights on the CZ-52. From: WMFlash To: Karl Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 12:31:28 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Wow. I should have known you had a project in the works. :-) Thanks for the quick feedback, Karl.

Subject: Excellent! From: Marko To: Karl Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 00:26:01 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Karl: Kudos, once again. Who knows, this might be the ticket for me to finally take the CZ-52 plunge... ;) Take care. Marko

Subject: Bulgarian Date Codes From: Lizard To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:23:58 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I PROMISE to start sending off emails to my GF's uncle and anyone she knows that would have any idea on how to get the information that we so seek. So if you guys want to place in the replies of this thread the information on the BULGARIAN Makarovs that you want to find out, i'll make sure to include that in the letters/emails that i send. forever questing for truth and date codes, Lizard King

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Date Codes From: CW To: Lizard Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 02:26:15 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: All I can say is good luck, as I hear Arsenal is pretty tight lipped. Some questions you might want to ask are: Where did the machinery originate from and who supervised instalation. When and why did they change slide serrations from 10 to 13 on the safety side? Who made the squared trigger gaurds for Miltex? Was the Makarov just for police issue (as reported once before)? If not, are there proof marks or serial number ranges for different branches of service? Was there any unusaul Bulgarian modifications or models made that we do not know of? (i.e. like the target model longslide) Again good luck!! -Chris

Subject: One question i can answer right now From: Lizard To: CW Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 13:34:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Bulgarian Military used the Makarovs. But only the officers and higher ranking enlisted. this i know from my GF's step father, who, as all men, was in the army for 2 years and never got to shoot a Makarov, or even touch one

Subject: Field stripping Bulgarian Makarov From: W. Hull To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:08:29 (EDT) Email Address: Wvhull@aol.com Message: I have folled the instructions to field stri the pistol but the slide wont lift up when retracted to the rear. Is there a trick to it?

Subject: Re: Field stripping Bulgarian Makarov From: Lizard To: W. Hull Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:11:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Pull back as HARD as you can, make sure the hammer is down and the trigger guard is all the way down, and it should pop right out

Subject: Re: Field stripping Bulgarian Makarov From: tree To: Lizard Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:32:30 (EDT) Email Address: 45acp@klondyke.net Message: I might add, that when you pull the slide back all the way, lift up on the rear and it will come off.

Subject: EG mark? From: pa To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 18:25:36 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Maybe this will work. See post below. a1 albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1204853&a=8887507&p=47127543

Subject: EG mark? From: pa To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 14:54:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Does anyone know what this mark is? This is on my latest EG and I don't have it on the others. Looks like the small letter 'a' in a circle of dots below the date '61'. Thanks... a1 up1.bc.yahoo.com/preview/img098805028816593/640_a1.JPG

Subject: Inspector's stamp From: arcom To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 16:03:57 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They come in different styles and shapes, but all appear on the same place on the frame. Each inspector had his own unique stamp.

Subject: Re: Inspector's stamp From: pa To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 18:31:36 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks, arcom. I was reading about the letter 'y' in a circle of dots and was curious about the 'a' as I haven't seen either mark before.

Subject: Re: Inspector's stamp From: Frenchy To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 23:45:38 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thank's from me also, arcom. I didn't realize that it was an inspector's mark. Mine has the 'y'!

Subject: Thanks Slim Tim..... From: Frenchy To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 14:24:17 (EDT) Email Address: steveh@socket.net Message: Just received my East German polishing cloths today in the mail. I had no idea they were so large. I could do my car with one of these! It does a very nice job on mt EG Mak. Thanks again ST, for a fine value.

Subject: ditto, what he said From: bullet44 To: Frenchy Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 15:15:54 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just received my East German polishing cloths today in the mail. I had no idea they were so large. I could do my car with one of these! It does a very nice job on mt EG Mak. Thanks again ST, for a fine value. ---

Subject: Thank YOU From: SlimTim To: bullet44 Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:19:50 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Frenchy, bullet44 et. al, thanks for the kind words. I'm not Karl and like to do things in batch mode, so they may have seemed to be on the slow boat from Berlin for some of you. :-) Hope you enjoy find them to be as useful as I and others have. I'm out of the EG polishing cloths right now, hope to have more next week. I was hoping Karl might pick these up and sell them, but I can't say that it'd be worthwhile for him to do so, they are so cheap. While we are thanking folks, I recently sold several maks, in fact, still have 2 transactions to complete. As I know some folks don't like others knowing what guns they have, and no one gave me permission to use their names, I won't brag on the individuals I did business with by name. I will say that each and every one of them were a pleasure to deal with and made for smooth transactions with nary a hitch. Thanks guys! SlimTim

Subject: Re: Thank you Marko & SlimTim From: Pussball To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 20:41:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just for the record, I bought one of Slim Tim's 40th Anniversary Big Bear Arms Makarovs with the money I got from Marko, who purchased a Russian PM from me. A three way deal! Thank you Marko. Thank you Slim Tim. I would not hesitate to do business with either one of you again! Regards - Pussball

Subject: SlimTim From: Makman To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 20:11:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: ST I guess now that you have sold off all your cool guns, you now have the cash to pay your uncle ? So I guess we will still have you around the find those good deals for us ! MM

Subject: Good deals From: SlimTim To: Makman Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 20:20:54 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Makman, Got Uncle paid, and I always keep my eyes and ears open for deals. I'm handicapped somewhat in that I can't use the 'net at work like I used to with my new job, but I think I can find a few now & then. There's one fellow that posts here that could tell a few stories if he were to talk. The deals I've put him on to . . . . I know of at least 5 or 6--type 59s (2), Simson Suhl, satin IJ-70, hi-cap, etc. etc. Of course, if I had the money, he'd have missed them all! :-) ST

Subject: How you say It ? From: BigMak To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 12:35:59 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I imagine it has been asked many times, but. What is the proper pronunciation of Makarov ?

Subject: Illya! Help us out!(nt) From: Markus To: BigMak Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:56:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Help. From: IJ70 To: Markus Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 13:00:39 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Both pa and Lizard (his girlfriend to be exact) are right. Even in Russia there is slight difference in pronuncuation of the last vovl, since I am from Moscow (and in that region in general) I would pronounce it as Mah-ka-rov.

Subject: ya, thats how my GF said it was in Russian NT From: Lizard To: IJ70 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 13:47:57 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: How you say It ? From: pa To: BigMak Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 13:22:33 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Direct from the 'Makarov FAQ'...The correct pronunciation of Makarov is actually 'Mah KAR ahv' and not the more frequently heard 'MACK uh rahv'. Having said that...have you ever asked a dealer at a gun show if they have any 'Mah KAR ahvs'? I have... =^)

Subject: I did that once! From: SlimTim To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:23:20 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Pa, I asked for a Mah-KAR-ahv once. Never again. What a look! Sometimes in SE Tennessee these are also referred to as ''Mak-in-offs.'' -- ST

Subject: From my Bulgarian Girlfriend From: Lizard To: BigMak Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 13:11:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: She says that the proper pronucciation is mack-KAR-rov.

Subject: Selling my CO2 Makarov From: Greg Haddon To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 11:04:50 (EDT) Email Address: ghaddon@carolina.rr.com Message: First $60 gets it, UPS ground shipping included. I've only put about 100 BB's through it. I can accept Paypal or Money Order. Just let me know via e-mail.

Subject: Re: Selling my CO2 Makarov From: Greg Haddon To: Greg Haddon Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:17:46 (EDT) Email Address: ghaddon@carolina.rr.com Message: SOLD! Thanks.

Subject: Bulgarian Mak date code? From: pa To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 01:57:55 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: After getting 2 NIB Bulgarian 'Arsenal and Arsenal Miltex' Maks with a 'quality certificate' with each pistol stating the date when it was produced, I remembered a post some time ago about the 2 prefix numbers before the serial number on the Bulgarian Maks being some type of code and a possible link with the date they were made. My Arsenal Maks were made in 1999 with the prefix number '38'. If the '38' stands for 1999, could that mean that my Bulgie military was made in 1988 with a prefix number of '27'? Going back in years from '38'=1999 to '0'=1961, it kind of makes sense. Anyone know when the Bulgarians started producing the Maks? Anyone remember the original post?

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak date code? From: PM To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:41:09 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Actually, it's my hairbrained theory, but I think it has merit. I took a little poll of Arsenal Bulgie owners, about their date of production on the certification paper that came with the pistols, and the middle two digits in the SN on the pistol. The results were pretty consistant. My two Arsenal PMs were both dated in the middle of '96, and are stamped ''36''. One, or two Maks may have been dated early '97, and still had the middle two digits ''36''. A pattern was established with the ones that were stamped ''37'', and ''38'' being '97, or early '98, and '98, or early '99, respectively. Curiously, I don't remember anyone having anything older than '96. What months were yours produced, Pa? Pat

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak date code? From: pa To: PM Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 20:28:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: PM, my Arsenal is from February of 99' and I think the Miltex is from January 99'. Can't find the paper for it at the moment... When did they begin to make the Arsenals and Miltex? My only Bulgarian military/police is #27. They make Maks in 1988?

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak date code? From: PM To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:53:59 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Not sure when they started producing the Arsenal. Mid 90s would be my guess. I don't think anyone's sure about any production info on the mil PM If the SN ''code'' does hold true for the milsurps, then mine would be '84-early'85. (#24)

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak date code? From: TENNESSEEAN To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:12:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The arsenal Maks were made under a differen't set of rules, with better record keeping. They were made for export whereas the orig. Bulgies were made for the armed forces and police. I don't think your date theory will hold up because according to everything else the East Germands sold the machinery to the Bulgarians when they quit making Maks in 65, so the Bularians couldn't have been making them in 61. Who knows just my opinion. TN

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak date code? From: pa To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 20:37:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: TN, That's what I was curious about. I was just wondering when the Bulgarian Maks started/stopped being produced and if the theory was close to being the same for the military and the commercial.

Subject: Re: Bulgarian Mak date code? From: TENNESSEEAN To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:02:57 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I don't think there is any doubt about the Arsenal guns made for Miltex as the documentation with the guns clearly points to 96-98 possibly early 99. In my opinion the Bulgarian Maks were probably produced late 60's early 70's and who knows for how long or how many. Mabey they were all produced within the two year span that some people refer to, no one knows but the Bulgarians and they aren't telling. I'm just glad they made them. TN

Subject: Yep... From: PM To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:58:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Who knows if they didn't just pick up where they left off, on the SN, when they started making the commercial ones. In other words, if they stopped making military pistols in the '60s, then started making them for commercial sales in the '90s, and just continued on with the SN system they had, originally. A Bulgarian military web site, that arcom posted a link to, a while back, said that the Bulgarians only made Maks for two years, I think it was. If this is the case, they must have been producing Maks morning, noon, and night, seven days week, for two years straight, becuase there sure seems to have beeen a ton of 'em imported here. I doubt we'll ever really know, for sure, how to date the Bulgarian PMs. I think it's kind of funny how we find this so important! Oh well, it keeps us occupied! :^D Pat

Subject: I hope you're right From: serger To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 13:17:09 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That would take care of the numeric designators. What about the alpha's. My guns have BA and KP prefixes before the first numeric. But based on your numbers my guns were made in 20=1981 and 23=1984.

Subject: Re: I hope you're right From: Wildtim To: serger Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:39:43 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Then my military surplus mak would have been made in 1990=29? seems to recent to me

Subject: Re: I hope you're right From: pa To: Wildtim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 20:43:09 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yeah, mine would be from 88'. Guess we'll never know. I have seen a few so nice that they look like they were made last week. ;^)

Subject: An Idea.. From: CW To: pa Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 02:11:21 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: After reading through the thread, it got me thinking... We don't know the date starting of milsurp Bulgies but maybe if we checked the dates of the mis-matched Russians we might have a clue of when it all started. The Bulgarian's probably bought the Russian pieces before they started production, but wouldn't need to buy anymore later, therefore, if we could get a few dates off the mismatched Russians we might be able to figure it out down to the decade at least. Anybody out there with ideas? -Chris

Subject: T33 From: gregs To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:29:54 (EDT) Email Address: gregs@megsinset.com Message: Anyone bought one of the Polish T33s from SOG. I have a Mak and a CZ52. How does the Polish T33 compare to the CZ. How is the fit and finish?

Subject: Re: T33 From: Makman To: gregs Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 20:19:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have both a TT and a CZ52. I like them both. The TT has a shorter grip than the CZ and is lighter,but still nice to shoot. My TT from SOG looks like new. MM

Subject: Re: T33 From: me To: gregs Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 11:26:17 (EDT) Email Address: burmilo@earthlink.net Message: I've got one of them. Looks perfect (absolutely new). WOrks even better. Tried different ammo on it (New generation, Sellier&Bellot) not a problem. Saw different awfull stories about New generation ammo, but worked with no flaws. (CZ shooters should replace their firing pins i suppose). The only down side is non replaceable and un adjustable front sight. The gun sighted at 25 meters by default. And the bullet has very high curve. So you have to keep your front sight considerably higher then the rear for shorter and longer distances. Non adjustable sight sucks for that matter. As for the comparison - i like it much better than Mak. Lesser recoil. Never shot a CZ...could not compare. Although i like the ergonomics of CZ better. Well, if you really want to shoot armored vehicles with a pistol at a long range - TT is your choice :)

Subject: check out Cruffler.com From: serger To: gregs Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 00:40:31 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They have a writeup on these guns. Seems they are NIB(as much as a 40something exGI gun can be). Suposedly very nice. http://www.cruffler.com/review-March-01.html

Subject: Re: check out Cruffler.com From: WMFlash To: serger Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 21:26:16 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://guns.ru/rus/tt/index.html This seemed interesting, so I'm going to pos it. It's a pretty long Russian article on the TT-33. I haven't found a great Russian translation program on the 'net, yet, but the one at altavista seems to work.

Subject: thanks Bill. ntx From: serger To: WMFlash Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 02:23:39 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: ..

Subject: Time to pick some brains From: Texwolf To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:01:12 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Question 1: I have been told the T-33 is a weaker design in comparison to the CZ-52 (both firing 7.62x25). What is the general opinion/facts on this? 2: CZ83 in 9x18....good buy or good BYE? 3: Who knows where to source Norinco 54-1 9mm parts? Seems to be a rare item. The only thing I can find is for the 213 model, is that interchangeable?

Subject: slim pickins' From: serger To: Texwolf Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:17:01 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 1. The TT33 is weaker than the CZ52 but I like it's browning heritage. And I like it's handling. 2. The CZ83 is good for the money, but it's an odd ball. Still they are worth a c note. 3. I think Valor corp has a source for parts for the Norinco They are importing a tokarev now. I had a 213 and sold it(stupid me). Let me ask you a question about the 54-1. Does it have a spacer in the magazine well? if so it will take 213 parts. The 213 is a 7.62X25 which has a 9MM bbl and a spacer in the mag well to hold the shorter 9MM magazines. If you had the right barrels and magazines you could shoot 380,9X18,9X19,9MM largo,38 super, and 7.62X25 out of it. It is a nice combo weapon.

Subject: Re: slim pickins' From: Texwolf To: serger Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 09:33:21 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: No spacer in the mag well, or at least that I can see. The magazine has a spacer in it. To me it looks like a full size Tok mag, just the spacer has been added to accomodate the short 9x19 round. SO what does this mean? It's stamped 9x19 on the slide, which makes me believe it was manufactured that way. Weird conifg. I noticed all the parts are stamped with the same serial number too. It just seems odd to me, that if it was produced a 9mm, why the big mag with a spacer in in the mag, and not the mag well? The piece I'm talking about in the mag: The back portion of the mag has about a 1/4' (maybe a little less) plate down the inside to 'take up room'.

Subject: that's good! From: serger To: Texwolf Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 13:26:37 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: the spacer in the 213 was pinned in the well. I'd just about bet you the standard 762tok mag will fit in the mag well. if that's the case all you'd have to do to shoot 7.62X25 would be to get a replacement bbl assy, do a little fitting on the bbl locking lugs and feed ramp transition and be on your way. You would also want a 7.62tok recoil spring.I'll look in the Shotgun news and see if I can find one of the commie gun parts peddlers and get back to you. The 9x19 guns are for importation to the round eyed devils because they want that caliber. Performance wise the 762tok has a lot going for it.

Subject: Re: that's good! From: Texwolf To: serger Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 22:21:45 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I believe the model I got was a 'converted to' 9mm. I'd appreciate any info on where to source parts for 9mm and 7.62 for this animal. I ran across a pawn shop and found a 213. The guy wants 169 bucks, and I was able to talk him down to $50 out the door. Just deciding if I want another one, before I figure out what I've gotten myself into..haha So, the consensus is I need a Tokarev 7.62x25 mag fitted down to 9x19 via a plate in the mag, not in the mag well. Right?

Subject: actually they had 9mm... From: serger To: Texwolf Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 02:46:59 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They had 9MM mags built for the 213 which worked fine. The gun I sold came with 2 and I bought 4 more from J&G sales in AZ. I kick my self in the ass for selling it but at the time I was getting the cash together to buy an M-16. I thought they were high at 3k but that's another story. Anyway, the 213 had add on frame safety in the same area the 1911's is at. It was a POS with 2 little bs screws that were poorly made and even more poorly installed. This was to keep the safety from over rotating and coming out. Other than that it was a real neat little gun. If the pawn shop guy will part with it at 50.00 it's a steal because I've been looking in both Shotgun News and Gun list and the cheapest I've found was 159.00 for a used one. There is a company who advertises in SGN and they peddle L1A1 FAL parts and mak parts and tt33 parts which are russian parts for the tokarev. I'm not sure what issue of SGN they run their ad in(the first,tenth, or twentyth of the month). As far as I've been able to tell all the commies did to import the guns were to rebarrel some to 9mm and either modify the magazine or the mag well for the shorter 9mm luger ctg. I've heard that the 9mm round will function out of the 762tok mag with the same level of reliability the 9mm will function out of the CZ52. I looked tonight in the 20apr01 issue of SGN but couldn't find the peddler who has the tt33 parts for sale.If you got ahold of about 6 consectuive issues you'd find the ad. I can see it in my head but I'll be damned if I can remember who they are. If you've got a model 54 the parts on both should just about drop in. These guns were originally designed for production in the ussr when they were real short on machine tools and the only really complicated part of the gun is the modular lock work unit which is brick simple and was designed to be a field replaceable unit FRU. It was the only part that was fairly hard to build.

Subject: For parts Global Trades comes to mind. (nt) From: IJ70 To: serger Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 13:30:18 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Never hear about T-33;) (nt) From: IJ70 To: Texwolf Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:08:44 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: not enough cash... From: pa To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:09:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: At the Des Moines show yesterday, I saw the nicest EG Mak that I have ever seen and bought it quick! Was walking around just glancing here and there and saw a Mak that I have never seen in person before either. An Arsenal 'Miltex Special Edition' in 9x18. New, gloss black? with 2 matching mags, but he couldn't find the box, so he said that he would send it to me if he found it. I bought that too, plus a Pearce grip for my 'Arsenal' Mak! In the space of about 2 weeks, I have lucked into these. (pic...I hope) maks us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/3919d6a/bc/My+Photos/maks.JPG?bcGo6M7AWGOIgO2_

Subject: Re: not enough cash... From: Pussball To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 00:31:07 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: pa - Congratulations! Those are some fine lookin' pistols. You know, there's nothing quite like the feeling you get when you bring home a couple of awesome Maks. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling every time! Regards - Pussball

Subject: Re: not enough cash... From: pa To: Pussball Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 01:05:03 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Pussball, it made me excited enough to stop at a rest area on the way back to take them out of the trunk and 'examine' them a bit more closely on my 3 1/2 hour journey home. The trip back felt a whole lot shorter than the trip going to the show. ;^) After I got the EG and Miltex, I missed out on a 9x18 'Baikal' IJ-70HC NIB with 12 round mags. He wasn't set up for credit cards and by the time I begged and borrowed enough cash from some friends that were there, it was gone. Maybe I'll see it at the next show?

Subject: Pa: Here's your pic (I hope) From: Marko To: pa Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:27:04 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Pa: Nice looking Maks. Here's your pic, I hope. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Pa: Here's your pic (I hope) From: pa To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 01:07:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks again, Mark. Above and beyond... =^)

Subject: Re: Pa: LOOKIN GOOD!!! (nt) From: TENNESSEEAN To: Marko Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:52:01 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: EG Grips From: Lt. John To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 21:50:52 (EDT) Email Address: john@thousand-hills.tzo.net Message: I have been told that EG Grips have no lanyard loop. 'Cheaper than Dirt' offers EG Grips, but they ar pictured with lanyard loops and a thumb rest. ????? John

Subject: Re: EG Grips From: WildTim To: Lt. John Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 00:07:52 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have been told that EG Grips have no lanyard loop. 'Cheaper than Dirt' offers EG Grips, but they ar pictured with lanyard loops and a thumb rest. ????? John --- Sounds like cheeper-than-dirt is passing bulgarian grips off as EG because the Eg's are more popular.

Subject: Re: EG Grips From: TENNESSEEAN To: Lt. John Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 21:58:43 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Origional EG grips have a hole in the back for a lanyard loop but not all, none have a thumbrest. HTH TN

Subject: Re: EG Grips From: PM To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:51:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Lt.John Check out the pic Pa posted above-The PM on top sports a true EG grip. Pat

Subject: Re: EG Grips From: pa To: PM Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 01:30:33 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Lt. John...The EG grips are the ones that I prefer...followed by the Simson Suhl grips and then the Pearce grips. I'm 6'4'' tall with fairly long fingers, but still like the thinner grips the best. A friend of mine is an inch taller and likes the thick grips...to each his own. :^)

Subject: Re: EG Grips From: SlimTim To: pa Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 01:51:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: A batch of EGs were imported with the red star thumbrest grips this past year. SOG specificly had some as I recall, and I think Century as well. This was cussed and discussed, I remember Arcom posting a pic from an old magazine in the early '90s with an EG wearing such a grip. I still think it's a Chinese grip, the Type 59s have the same grip. ST

Subject: new mak? From: lajx To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 21:17:21 (EDT) Email Address: lajx3@prodigy.net Message: who is selling new makarov's. not one listed in the SGN.

Subject: Re: new mak? From: IJ70 To: lajx Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:11:05 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You must be looking in the wrong SGN. SOG, AIM, J & G Sales, KY Imports, etc.

Subject: operative word -- new From: charlie To: IJ70 Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 19:11:59 (EDT) Email Address: lajx3@prodigy.net Message: You must be looking in the wrong SGN. SOG, AIM, J & G Sales, KY Imports, etc. --- I have a friend who wants a new mak, not a milsurp. Sorry that I didn't make that clear.

Subject: Mak & TT-33 From: Sierra To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 19:42:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Took my Mak out today and the guys on both sides wanted to purchase it. One was shooting a Glock 19 and the other Sig .40 neither could shoot well. There is an interesting post over at The Firing Line about the .45 vs the TT-33. One post says the Tok is a real screamer. Are they talking about those Polish TT-33's that shoot 762x25?

Subject: yup they are From: serger To: Sierra Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:04:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The 7.62X25 is a hotrod. In Asia the cops had to have their body armor rated at tokarev proof due to the class 3a vests being non hackers when poked by one of them. The CZ52's can shoot real hot loads with this round. Speeds in excess of 1700fps are common. But there are also some smg loads out there which are too hot for the CZ52 and the guns will blow up. The tokarev TT33's can't handle the hot loads but the standard loads will still eat your lunch and the guns carry well due to their flatness.

Subject: Re: yup they are From: IJ70 To: serger Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:15:33 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Same is true for Russia. I do not know how it is now, but just a few years ago TT was weapon of choice for assasins because of the gun being very common and even standard handgun ammo being very powerfull.

Subject: Makarov vs. Tokarev From: Meagan To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 19:40:02 (EDT) Email Address: Meagan@freemanonline.com Message: Is there a 9mm version of a Tokarev or any other Russian gun? Or is Makarov the only 9mm Russian gun made today?

Subject: Re: Makarov vs. Tokarev From: IJ70 To: Meagan Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:59:06 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Russians are currently making about three or four handguns in 9mm, but none of them are available in U.S. Russian Makarovs that you see right now are either imported by mistake or from previous batches. Chinease actively produce and market Tokarev Handgun (TT-33) in 9mm, all of these are comercial products and not surplus. Yougoslavs also make TT in 10mm.

Subject: Re: Makarov vs. Tokarev From: WIldtim To: IJ70 Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 00:15:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Are the Yougo TT's being imported, If so Where and at what price? I love the 10mm but hate the fact that my hands won't fit the fat long double stack grips most modern designs have.

Subject: Re: Makarov vs. Tokarev From: Wildtim To: WIldtim Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 00:17:06 (EDT) Email Address: Wildhausk9@msn.com Message: Are the Yougo TT's being imported, If so Where and at what price? I love the 10mm but hate the fact that my hands won't fit the fat long double stack grips most modern designs have. ---

Subject: I did not say they were imported. (nt) From: IJ70 To: Wildtim Date Posted: Tues, Apr 24, 2001 at 21:54:41 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Makarov vs. Tokarev From: Denny To: Meagan Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:59:04 (EDT) Email Address: rjdenny@iupui.edu Message: Norinco makes a 9mm Tokarev. I believe its a 9x19 version not the 9x18 Makarov. I just looked at one used at a local gun store for 159.99.

Subject: Re: Makarov vs. Tokarev From: Texwolf To: Denny Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:04:59 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Norinco makes a 9mm Tokarev. I believe its a 9x19 version not the 9x18 Makarov. I just looked at one used at a local gun store for 159.99. --- Is the 9mm Tokarev known as a T-54, 54-1, or a Model 213? I've seen all variations listed, but don't know how to differentiate them. All I know is that the 213 is a commercial imported version from 1988 or so. The T-54 is a supposed to be a mil. surp. weapon??

Subject: Re: Makarov vs. Tokarev From: Texwolf To: Meagan Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:54:23 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I just purchased a Norinco 9mm which is pretty similar to the Tokarev (so similiar, I'm finding out, that it uses a modified Tok mag to feed 9mm) Mak is no longer a production piece, just mil. surp. I haven't had a chance to shoot the Norinco yet, but it looks pretty solid. I tore it down today and cleaned up some machine marks inside and smoothed up the trigger/sear/disconnect. I'm not aware of a 9mm production Tok, just converted Toks (from 7.62x25 to 9mm). Then again, I'm not a Tok guru. Hope this helps

Subject: 9x18 Ballistic Chart From: Denny To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:28:39 (EDT) Email Address: rjdenny@iupui.edu Message: What is the reason that this round has such a dramatic 'bell curve'? At 25 yrds the point of inpact on my Bulg Mak is still a couple of inches above point of aim. It does have a nice tight grouping when fired. I have never ran into this before with other pistols/calibers. Thanks.

Subject: Re: 9x18 Ballistic Chart From: arcom To: Denny Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:36:04 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Actually, the trajectory of the 9x18 round is pretty flat. Most fixed sight Maks shoot high because that's the way the sights were designed. On an 8 inch bullseye and with the standard military 6 o'clock hold, you should be right around the 10 ring.

Subject: CZ 52? Tokarev TT33? From: Eric Marsh To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:15:17 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: I guess I got my first handgun two or three months ago. My first gun is a Glock G30 and my wife Janet's first gun is a Sig 232. I saw a J & G flier advertising Makarovs for $99 and when I mentioned it she said that she wanted one because she really wanted a 9mm. I bought the Mararov for her but she decided she didn't like the gun because its a little big for her hands. I ended up with the Mak which I took an immedate liking to because its an accurate, inexpensive oddball that might be suitable as an alternate conceiled carry gun. For a while I was getting my best patterns with the Mak, but after getting an adjustible site for my glock its moved back to the #1 slot. Still, my Makarov is being cultivated as my alternate handgun. Its easier to conceal than the Glock and may be more appropiate in some situations. Now I've got a couple of good practical guns. However when I was looking at the Makarov I saw that J&G also had cheap CZ 52s. I think that the Makarov has given me a taste for unusual communist bloc weapons. Having read a little bit about the CZ 52 I'm thinking about getting one just for a fun range gun. The ammo is cheap, they are unusual, and they make a big noise. Cool. I've read a little bit about the CZ 52 but there seems to be some uncertainty about how accurate the weapon is. I guess that my Gock and Makarov may have spoiled me a little bit as they are both essentially accurate weapons. I have to wonder if the CZ will be accurate enough to challenge me and make it a pleasure to shoot. CZ 52 owners, what do you say about this? Also, looking at the SOG site I see that they have a bunch of Tokarev TT33s. From what I've read this is not a very accurate gun. Anyone with and experience with it? I know it will cost me more. Should I get one of them instead? I'll be interested in hearing any and all feedback about these two weapons. Eric

Subject: Decision Made From: Eric Marsh To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 14:58:28 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@austin.rr.com Message: I decided to go with the CZ for now. SOG wouldn't even give me a price so I bought it with one magazine from J&G for $109. With shipping and FFL my cost is $150. I've got my eye on a CZ 75 next. Eric

Subject: Re: CZ 52? Tokarev TT33? From: WMFlash To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:43:27 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The CZ-52 is a pretty accurate pistol, at least, that's been my experience. With some practice, you should be able to shoot it as well as your Mak. Although, I do find some people have a flinching problem with the round, since the 7.62x25 creates pretty impressive muzzle flash. The CZ-52 does have at least one quark. For the longest time I thought that either I was hitting the safety or it was being knocked during recoil causing the gun not to fire on the next shot. How wrong I was. I wasn't letting the trigger go forward enough before I pulled it again. A very easy problem to fix, it took me only a little while to get used to the slightly long trigger pull (military models are famous for it). There is an aftermarket trigger fix sold right here at Makarov.com, by the way. Also, the CZ-52 doesn't have the best grip in the world, but a Hogue Handall fixes that problem in no time. Outside of that, the pistol has performed very well. It has never jammed, even with the low quality Czech surplus I've been shooting. It's built like a tank, too (just remember not to dry fire it). Personally, I'd get the CZ. It's much stronger than the TT-33 and the roller action itself is inherently more accurate, since the barrel doesn't have to tilt. Look at it this way, it gives you a good excuse to start a CZ collection. ;-)

Subject: Re: CZ 52? Tokarev TT33? From: OneShot To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 18:27:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The TT33 is essentially a Browning design, just slightly improved and chambered for the 7.62x25. I own a few TT33s and though it may sound odd, if I take my time, with a surplus 1945 Soviet I can put 2 mags in a 3.5 in circle at 45' No kidding! Like I said-odd but I've got the trigger down on that particular pistol. You just have to find the letoff and 'stage it up' before the pop (or should I say KABOOOM!) I love my Tokarev. My advice, for the less thanthe price of that Glock you could get a CZ form J&G ans pick up a Polish TT33 for SOG. happy shooting!

Subject: OT: FS 1967 International Travelall 4x4 From: Berthold To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 13:05:36 (EDT) Email Address: berthold@uslink.net Message: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=582221054

Subject: Best Carry Grip ( Period ! ) From: Greek bomber To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 10:57:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I like most of you who, carry one of these wonderful little pistols have the Red star grip, the Pierce grip,the East german grip.All of which were purchased (In search of the Best.)I want to share with you a fun way to finally get that FEEL!!! your looking for. You start with a regular E.G.grip sand until smooth.I used a Black and Decker Mouse,finish by hand sanding the edges and contours.The last step is wash thoroughly with alcohol,paint with multiple coats of high quality flat Black paint. I PROMISE you this will be the best FEELING and BEST LOOKING grip you will EVER see.(PERIOD.)If any one trys this please post results/opinion.

Subject: I just don't get it...... From: Buckeye To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 07:49:24 (EDT) Email Address: hotwing4u Message: I can't understand peoples thinking. The other day I showed a friend my MAK and told him it is a great deal for self defense gun. Well I got the same reaction as when I pull it out at the gun range - people look at me like I have a second nose on my face. I try to explain the everything is milled (not a crappy stamping) and how it can be completely disasembled (unlike my beloved CZ75 - another story entirely!) I don't understand how people can make a judgment on something they have never tried. Yet they will love their Ruger P-89's ect. Pieces of crap, I owned one - briefly. I try to pass on to others somethings I have learned about firearms, often from first-hand experience. I'm no expert, just a hobby gunsmith/enthusiest, and I wish someone would have shared some of their knowledge with me earlier on some of my purchases rather than listening to some idiot behind the counter showing me the latest REMRUGERCHESTER. We have already passed through the 'golden age' of firearms production IMHO, and if you doubt it look at the new REM. 710 that the gun-writers love so much. YUCK! Yet if I tell someone about the 98 mauser I'm building a custom sporter on, once again I get that 'second nose' look. I'm not a high dollar snob and yet the prevailing attitude in this society is that the more it costs, the better it is. Not true at all, I shot a $900 H&K the other day for the first time. I wasn't impressed, and I don't even want to mention my opinion on Glocks. Sorry to whom it may offend but guns should be made of steel. I have a suspicion that there are others out there like me, but as long as uninformed masses continue to buy the crap being pawned off on us - then the manufacturers will not improve and will continue this downward spiral of quality. It's bad enough that the anit's are out to get us without the firarms manufacturers trying to screw us out of our hard earned dollars. Sorry to vent, but at least I feel a little better.

Subject: Re: I just don't get it...... From: Tovarich To: Buckeye Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 17:58:55 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Right there with you. Price<>Quality, especially where the PM is concerned. It reminds me a lot of Windows 2000 vs. UNIX/Linux. Windows 2000 is an outrageous resource hog, is unforgiveably slow unless you give it unbelievable amounts of resources, and many of its solutions are really half-assed. And 2000 Server (with 5 licenses) retails for around $1000. Look a few spaces over at the FreeBSD and Linux, and you get the same stuff (which will run fast & efficient on an old Pentium) for under $80. The Makarov might look a little rough and crude, but IMO it's every bit as good as the higher-priced pistols out there.

Subject: I thought they were crap. From: serger To: Buckeye Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 22:54:34 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: And I thought the only ones that were worth having were the Kraut ones. BUT, when I decided to get one, the EG guns were not available in my area. So I got some of the Circle10 guns and since then I've shot around 500 rounds of mixed ammunition through one of them. Without cleaning and guess what. It doesn't jam. SO, I love them. Not because they are steel or because they are well made, they are. Not because they are easy to work on, they are. They work. Every time. And since function is what counts with me, the PM rocks.They still shoot an underpowered round but with the Barnaul hollowpoints which actually expand I feel they are keepers. I just want an EG gun at a later date because they are esthetically the most pleasing to the eye. I have to give grudging respect to the soviets for the PM. It is totally reliable, easy to shoot and light enough to be there when you want it. I just wish it was a .45. And Yes I plan to get several more.

Subject: Re: I just don't get it...... From: Mark To: Buckeye Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 21:20:03 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: All the more for you and me.

Subject: Re: I just don't get it...... From: Texwolf To: Buckeye Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 13:12:37 (EDT) Email Address: Texwolf@ev1.net Message: I agree with your logic. I saw a Bulgarian Mak in a pawn shop about 4 years ago (unissued), and didn't know a thing about it. At first it looked 'old' or 'dated' and was kind of 'rough' in appearance when placed next to the topliners like Glock, Sig, and so on. And now that I know what I know about Maks, I know I got screwed when I bought it for 279 bucks. None the less, I'm glad I got it. After taking about 3 hours to figure out how to strip it the first time, I realized it was really well built. I shot about a hundred rounds through it, and really liked it. Matter of fact, I liked it so well, I got another one ( the first one was 9x17, then I bought a true Mak). Anyway, about 6000 rounds later, I've still got the same 9x17, no parts broken, no major mishaps (a couple feed problems from some h/p rounds) I've converted a few people that were high-end shooters only, though! HAHAHA. So much that they converted to Mak for concealed carry. Glock-snobs and Ruger-rats. Quality, but at what price?

Subject: Re: I just don't get it...... From: arcom To: Buckeye Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 10:45:57 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: To each his own. There many positivbe things that can be said about the Makarov. ''Modern'' is not one of them. The safety/decocking system was on the cutting edge of technology--50 years ago. By today's standards it is oversized, overweight and underpowered. The design is pure military: simple, virtually unbreakable and cheap to make. For a military weapon, it is exceptionally well made and finished. It makes little use of stamped parts except where the advantages of weight far outweigh the advantages of durability. It won't melt in the microwave. It field strips in 5 seconds and takes 30 seconds to clean and go back in service. It is acceptably accurate. With reasonable care, it will be far cheaper to own over 50,000 rounds than any modern Wonder Gun. And not a single one will ever be made again. At least not the milsurps. One day, it will be the 1911A1 of the Soviet Bloc--old, worn out but still reliable. And everybody will want one.

Subject: Re: I just don't get it...... From: Aardvark To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 11:22:02 (EDT) Email Address: art@aardvarkarms.com Message: Agree! 'Real' guns are made of Steel and Wood-well maybe rubber for grips! I carry a Russian Mak everyday in my shop. Lighter than my 1911, so my butt ain't draggin' at the end of the day. Works every time I shoot her at the range, will digest everything I feed her. Currently loaded with 380 Cor Bons. Thinking of 'Borrowing' one of the Bulgarians I have for sale as my own... Art

Subject: EG mak From: Hoosier Daddy To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 07:22:29 (EDT) Email Address: ashiron@aol.com Message: I have a new C&R license burning a hole in my pocket. I NEED a EG Mak!!!!!!!!!Anyone have any in stock? Saw one at a gunshow yesterday for $225. That seemed a little steep. Should I bite the 9x18 and go back today and get it? Oh woe is me.

Subject: Re: EG mak From: Tyler To: Hoosier Daddy Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 14:16:27 (EDT) Email Address: dickbirch@worldnet.att.net Message: I have an unfired E. German with two magazines and a military holster on Guns America, asking $200. This one was made in 1961 and has a matte finish that is excellent plus. The internals have no scratches at all, indicating that it has never been loaded. I bought several, but this is the only one I have not fired.

Subject: Bulgie Firing Pin From: Denny To: All Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 00:43:27 (EDT) Email Address: rjdenny@iupui.edu Message: Is it normal for the firing pin to rattle around inside the pistol. I have a unissued military that I just took to the range. I then removed the safety and firing pin to clean and remove any left-over packing gunk from inside the slide. I put it back together and now the firing pin rattles. I shake the slide and I can see the firing pin rattle around in the hole. I dont remember if it did this before i cleaned it or not. Thanks

Subject: Re: Bulgie Firing Pin From: Denny To: Denny Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:20:40 (EDT) Email Address: rjdenny@iupui.edu Message: Thanks. I can detail strip my Glock in under a minute but I am new to these. Thay are just a bit more complicated than a Glock but more fun to shoot. Thanks

Subject: Re: Bulgie Firing Pin From: pa To: Denny Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 02:19:37 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That's the way it should be, Denny. It's an easy way to check that your firing pin isn't clogged up with crud. Also, make sure that you take out the extractor and spring/plunger and clean inside the hole in the slide.

Subject: That is normal for Maks From: Druid To: Denny Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 02:13:44 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, that is completely normal. Tha Maks have a floating pin, that's why it rattles. As a matter of fact if you ever pick up the gun and shake it and the pin doesn't make any sound you must exercise care because the pin could be frozen in a position which could cause it to strike the primer and cause a detonation. I don't know the specifics but I remember reading here about someone who had that happen. In addition, because it is s floating pin, it is conceivable that if you drop the gun from sufficient height it could, in theory at least, cause the pin to move with sufficient momentum to discharge a round.

Subject: Re: That is normal for Maks From: CW To: Druid Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 03:46:58 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Someone did an unoffical drop test a year ago on this board and couldn't get a primed empty to go off. Can't remember the specifics though. Anybody remember the test? -Chris

Subject: Re:Drop Test From: Greg S. To: CW Date Posted: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 02:30:48 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Yep I did the tests. Dropped two Russians and a Bulgarian from a measured meter onto hard rubber mat over concrete. Dropped onto muzzle, grip, hammer, left side, right side, and top. At no time did the Mak set off a primer. Greg S.

Subject: Laynyard loop From: Lt_John To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 23:03:03 (EDT) Email Address: John@thousand-hills.tzo.net Message: I love my Mac but the lanyard loop on the grip makes the pistol uncomfortable to cayyr. Is there a recommended way of removing it? /john

Subject: How I cut mine off From: zbillster To: Lt_John Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 02:32:11 (EDT) Email Address: zbillster@hotmail.com Message: I don't have a dremel tool, but this is how I cut mine off. The metal is very soft, so I started by cutting into it with a pair of wirecutters as close to the base as possible. You can chew pretty far into the metal this way. I think I either broke it off when I got far enough into it (a la lumberjack style) with a pair of pliers or sawed the rest of it off with a little saw. Then I filed the nubs down with a flat file. WARNING: this is not a pretty result, as the file scraped up the grip. But hey, it worked!

Subject: My solution From: PM To: Lt_John Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 23:42:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Get an East German grip. They don't have the loop, star, or any text, and are black. In my opinion, they look better. Pat

Subject: Re: Laynyard loop From: RWU To: Lt_John Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 23:09:13 (EDT) Email Address: randallupton@hotmail.com Message: Got a Dremel type of tool with a cut off wheel? If so you are ready, if not got a small file? (if don't have the Dremel consider getting one they are handy for all kinds of things with guns). good luck, RWU

Subject: EG Question From: Kernel To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 18:47:11 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I saw an EG Mak at my local gunshop today.The overall condition was very good,only normal holster wear,and worn grips. The owner agreed to let me take it apart,and I noticed that the number on the triggerguard was not the same as the slide.From a collecting point of view,does this make a big difference? The barrel looked fine too,but I noticed that when I realised the mag,than when I put it back in,I had to really ram it home.The mag was Russian,was this the reason? Or,is this just a normal thing with with Maks? The price was good ($170 out the door). I would like some imput from you shooters out there!

Subject: Re: EG Question From: Richard To: Kernel Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:57:19 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: the magazine problem is easy to fix you may notice when you remove the mag and look up the grip a bit of the grip screw is sticking out this will make it very hard to remove and insert mags , now the fix is just remove the screw and grind off as much as needed to get the end of the screw flush with the inside wall of the mag well ...

Subject: Re: EG Question From: TENNESSEEAN To: Kernel Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 20:18:09 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The number on the trigger guard should be the last three digits of the number on the frame under the grip. Non matching means the gun was re-arsenaled at some time. The number on the slide and frame were added for import purposes. Some mags will be tighter than others usually not a problem. $170 out the door not too bad, EGs are getting harder to find at the old cheap prices. HTH TN

Subject: Re: EG Question From: arcom To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 10:55:58 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It's not unusual for the trigger guard to have been replaced. Especially if the pistol has seen some genuine militry use. While it is always more desireable from a collector's viewpoint to have an all matching pistol, the fact that it does not in no way means the pistol is inferior in terms of quality or reliability.

Subject: Re: EG Question From: Kernel To: arcom Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:48:18 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well guys,went back to the dealer and took the EG Mak home! This is my 1st one..but not the last one. After taking it apart,I found that it did in fact have matching numbers,and aside from well worn grips,and some minimal holster wear,it is in FANTASTIC condition! I can not wait to put a few hundred rds downrange next weekend.Thanks to all you guys who answered my questions and gave me good advice.Hell,$170 OTD is not a bad price at all for a proven design.Now its time to order some goodies for my new friend.

Subject: Anybody notice the P-83 Vanad From: Robert To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 17:31:24 (EDT) Email Address: bohemain@gtemail.net Message: I see on Dennis Kroh's web site he has what is described as a Polish military P-83. Would someone verify that this is a real Polish Mak? Empire Arms www.empirearms.com www.empirearms.com/radom-P83.jpg

Subject: Re: Anybody notice the P-83 Vanad From: TENNESSEEAN To: Robert Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 20:24:21 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It is Polish, chambered for 9x18 Makarov. Outside of that very little in common with the other Maks. TN

Subject: Re: Anybody notice the P-83 Vanad From: CW To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 03:36:23 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Think of it as the Polish answer to the Mak. It has a lot more stamped parts versus the Maks milled frame and slide. -Chris

Subject: people From: Makman To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 16:52:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have dealt with several people from this board and the experience has always been a good one. And Marko is right at the top of the list. MM

Subject: Shoulder Hloster. From: AKTimes2 To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 15:46:28 (EDT) Email Address: antu812@bigfoot.com Message: Some E.German Makarovs are coming in with sholder holsters. So does anyone have instructions for wearing. I bought mine at a gun show for 5 bucks but dumb me forgot to ask the guy how to wear this contraption. The whole rig doesn't seem very functional but I thought I would get it as a conversation piece when visiting the range.

Subject: Re: Shoulder Hloster. From: Makman To: AKTimes2 Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 16:55:19 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Go to www.makarovinfo.com and click on holisters,clips and grips. That one way to wear it ! MM

Subject: Norinco T54 9mm From: Texwolf To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 15:22:22 (EDT) Email Address: Texwolf@.ev1.net Message: Where can I find info on a Norinco built (imported by Intrac) 9mm? Specs, parts, dating? Are the Tokarev 9mm mags the same as these? They look pretty close...In other words, can the Tok mags (in 9mm) be used in a Norinco 9mm?

Subject: Do you have double stack or single stack gun? (nt) From: IJ70 To: Texwolf Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 23:37:51 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Single stack 8-shot From: Texwolf To: IJ70 Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 11:07:24 (EDT) Email Address: Texwolf@ev1.net Message:

Subject: Re: Single stack 8-shot From: SlimTim To: Texwolf Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 15:03:48 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I may show my ignorance here, but I thought both the Norinco 54T and the 213 were Tokarev knock-offs. I know you can get 9mm Tokarev magazines, sometimes it seems they outnumber the original 7.62x25 mags. -- ST

Subject: Yes n/t From: RonD To: Texwolf Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 19:48:58 (EDT) Email Address: rkdenzer@worldnet.att.net Message:

Subject: Need good gunsmith to replace my Makarov BBL From: Mike To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 12:21:16 (EDT) Email Address: mstorey@telapex.com Message: Looking for someone to replace my 9mm makarov bbl with a Fed. Ordinance 380acp bbl. I am not mechanically inclined and do not want to mess anything up. Any folks you could recommend would be appreciated.

Subject: Re: Need good gunsmith to replace my Makarov BBL From: Makman To: Mike Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 09:53:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Good point about the hole, I redrilled mine and put in a slightly larger pin. Work out good ! MM

Subject: Re: Need good gunsmith to replace my Makarov BBL From: RucSac To: Mike Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 17:48:39 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I went the other way, .380 to 9mmMak. It is easy to do with a barrel press from Karl. If I can do it anyone can, honest.

Subject: Re: Need good gunsmith to replace my Makarov BBL From: PM To: RucSac Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 23:48:22 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: One problem with changing barrels on any Maks, EXCEPT IJ70s, is the hole in the frame you anchor the press to, needs to be opened up with a small rat tail file, or dremel. I don't know why, but the commercial Russians already have the hole enlarged enough to get the press pin through. Pat

Subject: Ignore: This is a photo test From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 02:31:36 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: What are you looking here for. I told you to ignore this post... ;) [img src='http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=302006&a=2244395&p=17453773']

Subject: Yeah, right!;> From: IJ70 To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 23:39:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: And another test... ;) From: Marko To: IJ70 Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:05:35 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: And another test... ;) From: Pussball To: Marko Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:51:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Regards - Pussball

Subject: Nice Norinco! From: ccmano To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 14:59:13 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: If you want to post a pic use arrows on the ends < and > not [] and get rid of the quotation marks ' the rest looks ok. Is this a new toy?

Subject: Re: Nice Norinco! From: check To: ccmano Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 17:35:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Bad ammo? What do I do? From: Dan To: All Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 02:16:55 (EDT) Email Address: Dan@martiandeathray.com Message: I got 1000 9x18FMJ from Dan's Sporting goods and only 20-30% of the rounds will fire. What should I do?

Subject: let Dan make it right ntx From: serger To: Dan Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 02:39:21 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: .

Subject: OT: EG Paratroop vest question From: Rob Reed To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 23:51:18 (EDT) Email Address: reedrob1@hotmail.com Message: Does anyone have any experience with the EG Paratroop vest TAPCO is advertising? I'm interested in one, but would like some feedback first. One thing I'm wondering about is the sizing. Are they the teeny weeny size that so much Euro surplus gear seems to be? I'm 6'0, 200 pounds if that helps. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks Rob Reed

Subject: Re: OT: EG Paratroop vest question From: Kernel To: Rob Reed Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 09:20:16 (EDT) Email Address: classified Message: I have an EG Para vest in my collection. The size you will need is G-56,or G-58. What the G stands for is Groesse,which means large. They are very nice vests,kind of hard to find them in a good size though.

Subject: Re: OT: EG Paratroop vest question From: MRDDR To: Kernel Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 12:09:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They are pretty nice REPRODUCTION Vests that Tapco has-- Very hard to tell from the original, BUT they are repros. You will stand a better chance of getting a 56 size in these, but originals in these larger sizes are very hard to find. And Expensive!! a real one will cost you $100 plus in a 56. Most EG paras were Smalls and mediums.Hope this helps.

Subject: Re: OT: EG Paratroop vest question From: Tony E To: MRDDR Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 23:28:50 (EDT) Email Address: anthonyenglert at hotmail.com Message: I have one that's a size 52. I'm about the same size as Rob and it's a little loose on me but works just fine with a belt attached. It also fits fine over a field jacked. I didn't know they came in different sizes so I never specified any size in my order. I guess I lucked out with the right size. I didn't know they were reproductions, but I'm not surprised since the magazine pouch doesn't match. It looks like they just sewn one of the belt pouches on the front. It's a good vest, I can't wait to get out and try it out. -Tony

Subject: mak 9mm From: oldguy To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 22:24:11 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I suppose this cannot be imported.?? http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/hguns/baikal442/

Subject: Not yet. (nt) From: IJ70 To: oldguy Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 23:01:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: The One I Love :-) From: Richard To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 20:08:16 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My Chinese Mak ... home1.gte.net/samhain/ChinaMak.jpg

Subject: The once and future Norinco From: Marko To: Richard Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 02:28:54 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Very nice Richard. I got a real pleasant surprise today when I came across an old Norinco of mine for sale. It's now on its way back to its rightful home... ;) Anyway, if I've done this right, here's a pic (non 'zz' prefixed .380): img src='http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=302006&a=2244395&p=17453773' Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: The once and future Norinco From: Doctor PicPost To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 05:14:26 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: This what you are looking for? I'd sign my name, but I might mess it up. --Slim er, Anonyslim

Subject: Yes indeedy From: Marko To: Doctor PicPost Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 11:47:45 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Thanks Doc. I post enough pics that I should be doing it correctly in my sleep by now... Take care. Marko

Subject: Yet another good guy to deal with from this board. From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 17:32:21 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: I've made my fair share of gun deals, but the ones involving folks from this board have been the most pleasurable. In addition to positive deals with Arcom and Pussball, Makman is now added to my list of 'highly recommended'! The pistol I got was everything he said it would be and more. Don't hesitate to deal with him. Thanks Makman! Take care. Marko

Subject: WTB: hi-cap mags for CZ-83 From: Noel in the NorthWet To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 15:59:38 (EDT) Email Address: nmorgan@pop.nwnexus.com Message: I am looking to purchase a few 13rd hi-cap magazines for the CZ-83. Anyone have a few they want to unload? Ping me offline. Noel in the Great NorthWet

Subject: GUN SHOW @ WASHINGTON,PA. APRIL 21&22. From: Bills Guns To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 13:25:04 (EDT) Email Address: WLP97@AOL.COM Message: GUN SHOW @ WASHINGTON CO. FAIRGROUNDS APRIL 21&22.9A.M.-4P.M.WE JUST GOT IN MORE BULGARIAN MAKAROVS,RUSSIAN M-44 RIFLES,SAR-1 AK-RIFLES.ALSO I PICKED UP A RUSSIAN 1940-SVT RIFLE-NICE SHAPE.WE ALSO HAVE A NORINCO MD.-59 .380 CAL. MAKAROV FOR SALE.STOP BY TO SAY HELLO!SPECIAL AMMO DEALS FOR MAK.COM FANS.THANKS-BILL.

Subject: 8x18 Makarov ammunition by Winchester From: minkovski To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 12:27:58 (EDT) Email Address: gaa@srskansas.org Message: I see that CheaperThanDirt.com is selling 9x18 Makarov ammunition by Winchester for $8.51 for a box of 50, 95 gr FMJ. Has anybody had a chance to try the Winchester ammunition yet?

Subject: Re: 8x18 Makarov ammunition by Winchester From: Buckeye To: minkovski Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 15:51:08 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I shot 50 on Monday. My range wouldn't let me shoot Barnaul. The said because the case was steel they couldn't tell if it had a steel core. It (Win) shot very well....just like everything else in my Bulgie.

Subject: Re: 8x18 Makarov ammunition by Winchester From: IJ70 To: Buckeye Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 23:08:06 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I do not know about Win. 9mm PM rounds, but their ammo for Three Line Rifle is repackaged S&B ammo, so I have a feeling that they did the same with the 9mm PM ammo. Do yourself a favor and buy the cheapest ammo your range will allow you to use.

Subject: Re: 8x18 Makarov ammunition by Winchester From: Eric Marsh To: IJ70 Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 10:58:05 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: I went to the range yesterday and put about 100 rounds of Wolf ammo through my Mak. As with the last couple times, when I pulled the gun apart to clean it I noticed something gritty, almost like sand in the gun. Looking more carefully I realized that the grit was metal shavings from the ammo - apparently from the cartridge. I wonder if this is just a break in issue. Eric

Subject: Re: 8x18 Makarov ammunition by Winchester From: Eric Marsh To: IJ70 Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 10:57:50 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@inetport.com Message: I went to the range yesterday and put about 100 rounds of Wolf ammo through my Mak. As with the last couple times, when I pulled the gun apart to clean it I noticed something gritty, almost like sand in the gun. Looking more carefully I realized that the grit was metal shavings from the ammo - apparently from the cartridge. I wonder if this is just a break in issue. Eric

Subject: East German surplus ammo... From: pa To: All Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 12:16:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Has anyone chronographed the East German military surplus ammo from Cole's? My son and I tried some today and it was pretty accurate. Seemed to have a little more punch to it than the Norinco. Could that be from the steel core bullet? We cleaned the Maks the same way that we clean our Mosins when shooting corrosive ammo.

Subject: Results on SWC bullets From: Karl To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:45:13 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: Check out this page George Fisher, the designer of the SWC bullet, put together: http://www.geocities.com/gfisherws36/castpro.htm Looks like the bullets make a nice clean hole in the paper and they feed well. Shameless plug: bullet molds are available from Makarov.com for $55. We'll be casting some bullets for non-casters as well. -Karl

Subject: Karl From: bullet44 To: Karl Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 11:53:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 'we'll be casting some bullets for non-casters as well.' How soon will they be avaiable.????

Subject: Availability of SWC bullets... From: Karl To: bullet44 Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 21:03:51 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: I'm getting a casting setup next week or so. Another week or two to work the bugs out and we'll have some packs of 100 for sale. Gotta do some dimensional analysis to determine retail price with shipping. -Karl

Subject: Re: Results on SWC bullets From: Burt Lamborn To: Karl Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 11:09:01 (EDT) Email Address: burt.lamborn@sdl.usu.edu Message: Great reading! I currently reload for the Mak, and I would like to get into casting but don't have time or space yet. I can't wait to see his results with the other loads. Burt

Subject: Feed Ramp Polishing? From: Omega9 To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 21:29:00 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I just purchased a Bulgarian Mak. I have already shot 250 rounds through it and I really love this little gun. I keep reading about how important it is to poish the feed ramp. Can someone provide easy directions for polishing the feed ramp? I have heard rumors that you need a dremel tool or some other type of device.

Subject: Re: Feed Ramp Polish From: Greg S. To: Omega9 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:01:20 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Yo Omega!! If your Bulgie is feeding the rounds into the chamber, you don't need to worry about the feedramp. Some have polished their ramp because of a specific problem of failure to feed a certain brand of ammo. Usually Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP). If yours is working, don't fix it !! :D Greg S.

Subject: How? If you needed to!(nt) From: Markus To: Greg S. Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 19:39:22 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: two ways after checking mags From: serger To: Markus Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 03:06:39 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 1. You can take a dremel with cratex wheels(cratex is a rubberized abrasive sorta like a pencil eraser with heavier grit in it) and make light smooth passes maintaining the contour of the ramp. You want to remove the minimum ammount of metal you can get by with. Polish a little then try out the weapon. Another variation is the muslin wheel loaded with lapping compound followed with jewlers rouge on another wheel. 2. You take sandpaper with a backing like a dowel and using progressively finer paper polish the ramp. This takes longer to do than the dremel but it also is harder to mess up the gun while doing it. Before you go grinding on the pistol remember the vast, VAST majority of feeding problems are related to magazines which are not working properly. They either have the feed lip geometry wrong or the feed lips are bent or they have roughness or they don't release the round at the proper time to allow it to feed right or the springs are weak not allowing the bullet to be presented in time. If at all possible try using another magazine. And even though I haven't seen it in my Makarov's, some pistols prefer different makes of magazines. Ont thing you should do is the finger nail test if you suspect feed ramp problems. Run your finger nail along the junction where the barrel is fitted into the frame of the pistol. There should be a smooth transition between the barrel lug and the frame lips. If you can feel burrs then you may be able to lightly stone them out using a round ceramic rod or the sandpaper trick. But remember, You can't put metal back once you've taken it off. Therefore, less is better.

Subject: Re: Feed Ramp Polish From: Omega9 To: Greg S. Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 13:20:47 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have no problem firing Wolff ammo. I did notice a problem with Bahrnal JHP ammo, (Steel cases). I noticed 'sparks' in the area of the ejection port while firing the JHP with steel cases. Although I have NEVER has a single jam, I thought that polishing the feed ramp might help with the mystery 'sparks'. I am not sure that the steel jackets are causing the distracting light show. I did notice that this particualr JHP ammo left 2 to 3 times as much dirt in the Mak as normal. Almost as if the powder was not burning all the way. The outside of the JHP ammo was clean wiht the green colored steel cases. I am open to suggestions. Do you think the 'sparking' is related to the feed ramp or the dirty ammo.

Subject: Re: Feed Ramp Polish From: Greg S. To: Omega9 Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 00:37:27 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Hey 9!! Make sure you have no oil in the chamber or barrel. Inertial actions require a dry chamber to function. You want the brass to stick while the powder is burning, the let loose when the prssure is off. Oil interferes with this process. Oil can get into the rounds and cause dud rounds also. Greg S.

Subject: Re: Feed Ramp Polish From: RonD To: Omega9 Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 17:46:48 (EDT) Email Address: rkdenzer@worldnet.att.net Message: The sparks are flakes of burning powder and the dirt is unburned flakes of powder.

Subject: I concur. From: serger To: Greg S. Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 02:50:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: my circle10's feed hollowpoints fine and I didn't have to do anything to them. If the gun's feeding your ammunition don't screw with it. serger

Subject: SOG EG Makarovs From: Kernel To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 20:08:06 (EDT) Email Address: classified Message: My FFL dealer contacted me today regarding my EG from SOG.I should have had my 1st Makarov in my hands Friday nite,but it seems SOG has them on backorder. My dealer said that as far as he knows,SOG is the only place left for these,so better put your order in now. I have no idea how long this will take to get,but the wait $%^#ing killing me!

Subject: Re: SOG EG Makarovs From: SlimTim To: Kernel Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 20:45:58 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Try Wholesale Guns & Ammo, a/k/a Burns Brothers in Central Islip, NY. My first EG came from them, a little over 2 years ago. They were $179 then. Wholesale Guns & Ammo Hope they aren't out. We've had it great the last couple of years. Each new batch of East German Makarovs that were imported were priced cheaper than the preceeding batch. GSP's $99.50 deal was the ultimate. I'd guess the past few months were 'The Good Ol' Days' we'll tell our grandkids about, back when we could buy an EG for a C-note. I know others have said no more are coming in, but I think they will. I expect the price will be north of a hundred bucks though! SlimTim

Subject: Wholesale G&A keeps pluggin' EGs in SGN.. From: PM To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:15:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: About $160, I think. Just got the new copy yesterday, and they still had 'em in their ad. Pat

Subject: Re: Wholesale G&A keeps pluggin' EGs in SGN.. From: timbo40 To: PM Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 13:19:17 (EDT) Email Address: timbo_anderson@yahoo.com Message: I called Wholesale about three weeks ago and they were out of the EG Mak's. They did not anticipate getting any further in. Ended up ordering a Bulgie from them. $127 delivered. Decent shape, not NIB, really cheesy shoulder holster, two used mags. Shoots great. Will probably refinish someday.

Subject: Re: Wholesale G&A keeps pluggin' EGs in SGN.. From: SlimTim To: timbo40 Date Posted: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 16:29:25 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What a waste, I just got my new SGN and WG&A are STILL advertising EGs. Oh well, perhaps Federal Arms Corp. still has a few East Germans. Anyone know for certain? SlimTim

Subject: Re: Wholesale G&A keeps pluggin' EGs in SGN.. From: timbo40 To: SlimTim Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 02:14:19 (EDT) Email Address: timbo_anderson@yahoo.com Message: From one Tim to another Tim. Sorry to burst your ever hopeful bubble, but I called Fed Arms the same day I called Wholesale. They are out of EG Maks also. I did manage to get one from a guy who advertised it here. $160.00 delivered. Pretty good shape, except for some substantial holster wear around the muzzle. Otherwise very pristine. Keep looking, one will turn up. If I hear of one, I will post the details here.

Subject: Re: Wholesale G&A keeps pluggin' EGs in SGN.. From: SlimTim To: timbo40 Date Posted: Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 03:41:25 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Actually, I'm not looking for one for myself, just trying to source them for the folks that frequently post ''I wanna EG'' and the like. I am kind of saddenned by the fact that they aren't so readily available, and that I had sold so many while they were cheap! :-) ST

Subject: Looking for a MAK in Mississippi From: Tri-G To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 15:21:58 (EDT) Email Address: cal3g@earthlink.net Message: Does anyone know where I can purchase a Mak (EG or Bulgarian) in Northern Mississippi. I have checked around the gun shops, classifieds, and pawn shops, nothing here. The last Mak that I purchased was an EG, should have never sold it...

Subject: +P ok in FEG MarkII AP .380? From: o-town To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:40:45 (EDT) Email Address: o-town@hushmail.com Message: Is it safe to shoot +P ammo from the FEG MarkII AP .380? Thanks for the help!

Subject: Personal experience From: arcom To: o-town Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 16:21:40 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Until recently I owned a MK II APK in 380 caliber. Once I polished the ramp weell, it fed CorBons without an incident, although I did put only 100 rounds through it. My personal opinion is +P rounds will not adversely affect the pistol--it is a steel frame. But I also feel it is a bit too much round to control adequately. I found Winchester SXTs to be the best all around JHP round. It is a nice well made pistol, much more comfortable to shoot than the PA63 in my opinion. HTHs

Subject: Is that alloy frame? (nt) From: IJ70 To: o-town Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:46:11 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Is that alloy frame? (nt) From: o-town To: IJ70 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:57:30 (EDT) Email Address: o-town@hushmail.com Message: The gun weighs 27 ounces empty. I'm almost positive that it's steel

Subject: Re: Is that alloy frame? (nt) From: IJ70 To: o-town Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 13:09:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I do not own any FEG firearms, but I do read a lot about their BHP models. People in general do not recomend prolonged shooting of +P ammo in FEG 'Hi-Powers' so I would apply the same in case of your gun. All this means is that shooting +P from time to time is find, but constant use can be dangerous. Like yourself I also would like to hear from someone who knows more on the subject.

Subject: Re: Is that alloy frame? (nt) From: o-town To: IJ70 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 13:20:22 (EDT) Email Address: o-town@hushmail.com Message: I'm just looking to use MagSafe +P max bullets for self defense. I don't want to shoot them on a regular basis at the range. I just want to make sure that this is not dangerous

Subject: Re: Is that alloy frame? (nt) From: o-town To: o-town Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 18:30:58 (EDT) Email Address: o-town@hushmail.com Message: Just got back from the range!! Great gun, 110 rounds, no errors of any sort! It shot Triton quik-shok 380ACP+P with no problems

Subject: OT-but good! From: Aardvark To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:07:42 (EDT) Email Address: art@aardvarkarms.com Message: Dateline: Boston April 18 An attempt by Government agents to confiscate what is being described as an 'arsenal of assault weapons' from a self-styled militia group today ended in a stalemate after the militia, who were apparently warned, violently resisted. 'There is no reason for honest citizens to own military-style assault weapons' said a government spokesman. 'Some of these weapons were being stored in homes...think of the danger to the children'. One suspect, who is believed to have been involved in the leak to the militia, is in custody, and his vehicle has been confiscated. A militia member stated 'No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms' and 'I fear the government that fears my guns'. The sound of gunfire could be heard in Boston and, it is reported, even farther away. (BTW - the rest of the dateline - 1775) Aardvark Arms htttp://www.aardvarkarms.com

Subject: Important, but hardly good. (nt) From: IJ70 To: Aardvark Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:50:18 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: That's not half of it! Here's more... From: stephen To: IJ70 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 15:02:38 (EDT) Email Address: stephen@sopwithmotorsports.com Message: That is a chopped up version of a newspaper style report that told the story of the gun confiscations that led to the American War for Independence. If I find the entire story I'll post it. A few OT tidbits (can this REALLY be called OT?): - It was not a revolution. We had no intention of overthrowing the British gov't. We wanted independence from that gov't. - The American War for Independence started over gun control. For 20 years we peacably protested the taxes, trade manipulation and poor representation, but when they started demanding the surrender of guns in Boston and the forcible confiscation of militia weaponry... that's when it all hit the fan. - Nearly 3/4's of the patriot force at Cowpens (anyone see The Patriot?) was militia, 100% of the force at King's Mountain was militia, more than half of the patriot force at Guilford Courthouse was militia, and the war was not even sustainable, let alone winnable, without them. Self armed, self trained citizens. - Go to Cowpens, South Carolina and walk the battlefield. Take a few vacation days, quit your job or move if you have to, but GO. Go by yourself - completely alone - and walk the skirmish line where NC sharpshooters were stationed, then go to the left flank where the American militia under Andrew Pickens rallied at the moment of truth and wiped out the best cavalry unit on the planet. You will see today's world in a totally new light. Guaranteed.

Subject: Now I remember. From: IJ70 To: stephen Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 15:28:36 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, I read that article. It seemed like it happening now, but it was really the events of 1790s. Only in the very end did the author open the real time of events. Very interesting.

Subject: Makarov.com Anniversary Sale! From: Karl To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 23:22:00 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: Whew! I think I got all the forms updated now, including the CZ-52 form and the shopping cart. On-line order forms, Makarov and CZ-52: http://makarov.com/orderform.html http://makarov.com/cz52/cz52order.html Shopping cart system for PayPal users and those who wish to use their credit card via PayPal (get $5 credit from PayPal when you sign up): http://makarov.com/vindex.htm Here's an overview of the sale: * The only catch: $4.35 Priority Mail shipping required to get the sale prices. This allows me to slash prices to the bone, use the shipping materials provided by the Post Office, and get you your stuff fast! Obviously, if you're ordering from both Makarov and CZ-52 forms, you only need to request Priority Mail once. * Some Makarov items on sale: CDROM, bluing pencil set, HiDrop, commander hammer, all T-shirts, hat clearance (limited quantities!), Pearce 8rd, Bulgarian grips w/o thumbrest, hi cap mags (for double-stack Russian guns only), PA-63 mags, mag loaders, extended floorplates, all surplus holsters, all nylon holsters, recoil springs, books, Bulgarian barrel, barrel press (with barrel purchase), cleaning kit, cleaning rod, Breakfree CLP. * CZ-50/52 items on sale: CZ-50 plastic grips, Hogue HandAll, Harrington CZ52-2 and CZ52-3 kits (first time on sale ever), recoil springs, extended hold-open catch, Falco holsters, rear sight. * Prices good starting immediately and good through April 25th, 11:59PM EST. (Hey, gotta make a cut-off somewhere. I'm headed to the shore for some R&R that weekend, so that'll give me time to get it all in the mail.) * If at all possible, *PLEASE* order on-line. If you have questions, e-mail me. My phone time is severely checked by babysitting my little girl while hacking on the computer and all the other stuff I have to do (wrap packages, go to the post office and UPS, etc.). * If you have ordered before with a credit card, there is no need to fill out the order form. Just tell me what you want by e-mail (karl@makarov.com) and I'll send it to the address on file and charge the card on file. * If you ordered with PayPal before, you can also e-mail me with your requests and I can send you a PayPal request for payment. If you know the total, just send it via PayPal to karl@makarov.com. I can't send the stuff out until I'm paid though, Priority Mail or not. I think that about covers it. Any questions, just e-mail me: karl@makarov.com. -Karl

Subject: Re: Makarov.com Anniversary Sale! From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Karl Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 20:50:12 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Wow. I placed an order yesterday (via paypal), and today got a refund from Karl because one of the items has gone on sale! What great service! I just wanted everyone to know how pleased I am with makarov.com; this was not my first order, and won't be my last!

Subject: Re: Makarov.com Anniversary Sale! From: Karl To: J.R. Bob Dobbs Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:42:15 (EDT) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: Thanks, Bob. It's always tough to start a sale because the last guys that ordered before the sale feel stiffed. So I try to give the pending orders the sale prices. -Karl

Subject: Best Service on the Net!! From: ccmano To: Karl Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 10:48:37 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: Karl did the same for me. Not only that, my last order went to him Friday April 13th (Good Friday) and I received it Monday April 16th. Which means he must have shipped it the same day and has connections at the Post Office to get it delivered over Easter. Now thats service. Thanks Karl.

Subject: Karl is hot, Karl is on the ball!! From: Greg S. To: J.R. Bob Dobbs Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:09:22 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: ntxt ;)

Subject: First the lead bullet molds, and now a sale? From: Marko To: Karl Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 00:09:39 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Karl: First the lead bullet molds, and now a sale? What, are you bucking for sainthood or something? Bless you Karl... ;) Take care. Marko

Subject: Re:Moldy bullet sale? From: Greg S. To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 00:40:41 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: :D no text

Subject: You crack me up! (nt) From: Marko To: Greg S. Date Posted: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 01:02:02 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message:

Subject: CZ 52 Holsters Group Order? From: Mike P. Wagner To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 22:45:44 (EDT) Email Address: mikepwagner@nc.rr.com Message: I live close to a holster maker, 'Wild Bill's Concealment Holsters', in Garner, NC. He said that he would be glad to make a holster for me if I didn't mind bringing my CZ-52 by for him to mold the holster around. Here's his web site: http://www.wildbillsconcealment.com/ He said that the holster would be in the $50-$70 range. I was thinking that this might be a good opportunity for a group order. If there are several people interested, maybe we could coordinate, so that a group of us ordered while he had my pistol in the shop. I'm not quite sure about how to coordinate. The first thing is to figure out how many people would be interested in one of his holsters in this price range. Maybe we'd get them cheaper in a group order, I don't know. If you think you're interested, send me some e-amil, and I'll try to figure out how to coordinate this. Here's my e-amil address: mikepwagner@nc.rr.com Mike P. Wagner Wild Bill's Concealment Holsters www.wildbillsconcealment.com

Subject: Lookin to tune my Arsenal Mak!Help From: Robo To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 21:28:10 (EDT) Email Address: Narkocop@aol.com Message: Just bought a new-MINT blue arsenal Mak.I want to tune it up myself. Any tips?

Subject: Re: Lookin to tune my Arsenal Mak!Help From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Robo Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 08:42:54 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have 2, and polished the feedramps on both. They were pretty rough. I've never had a problem at all with jhp's, and carry only Corbon for the extra speed. The trigger does smooth out noticeably after about 200 dry-fire cycles.

Subject: Re: Lookin to tune my Arsenal Mak!Help From: PM To: Robo Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 23:00:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: First thing any Bulgie Mak needs is 400-500 rounds through it. This is the initial tune up. No kidding! I hated the trigger, decocker, and slide release on my commercial Bulgies until they fired a few hundred rounds! Now they're smooth as glass. Mine wouldn't feed XTP, or Corbon JHP ammo until they got a ramp job, either. Pat

Subject: A couple of ideas From: Marko To: Robo Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 22:48:49 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey Robo: Along with Tyler's suggestions of checking out Serge's trigger job post (excellent) and the Makarov.com 'technical tips' (also excellent), think about what you want to do with the stock fixed rear sight. I know that some of the Arsenals came with dimpled sights. If yours didn't, think about adding a pair of Karl's self-adhesive IDK sights from the accessories page here. But if your sight is dimpled, you're in luck. Remove the slide and wipe down the rear sight with some alcohol to remove any finger oils, etc. Then get a small bottle of Testors gloss white model paint, and a medium paper clip. Pour a very small puddle. Then unbend the clip so that you can dip the very tip of one end of the clip into the paint. Pointing the muzzle end of the slide toward the floor, and not using too much paint, and keeping a steady hand, touch the clip to each dimple on the slide, allowing the paint to flow into the dimples. If you get any overflow, let the paint tack up just a bit and drag a sharp Exacto knife blade across the top of the dimple and remove the excess paint. If you get way too much overflow, wipe it all away while it's wet and try again. Once the rear sight is done, let it dry. Then mask off all but the flat, rear-facing portion of the front sight. Hit it with the white paint and let it dry. Trim any excess with the Exacto knife. You now have a tremendously improved dot-bar-dot sight picture. And it only cost you a bottle of model paint and less than an hour of your time. If your Arsenal cam with the commercial thumbrest grip, or the clunky Miltex SE grip, and you don't like it, throw that grip in the drawer and get a Pearce rubber grip. Or if the Pearce is too bulky for you and you'd like a super thin grip for ccw, get an EG grip (about $17 from Karl). And if the EG grip's finish leaves a little to be desired, purchase a can of black automotive bumper/trim paint and a sheet of 600gr sand paper. Wash the grip in very hot soapy water (to remove any grease or oils), rinse and dry. Then using a sanding block, LIGHTLY knock down the 'points' of the checkering on the grip. This makes a world of difference in comfort, yet leaves plenty of textured surface in order to maintain a positive hold on the grip when firing the pistol. Next, LIGHTLY scuff the entire surface of the grip, knocking down any glossy areas. Wash, rinse, and dry the grip again. Then hit it with several LIGHT coats of the trim paint. The nice features of the trim paint are a durable semi-matte black finish, a slightly non-slip texture (as compared to the slick original finish), and a flex-agent built into the paint so that the finish won't crack and peel when installing or removing the grip. Hope this helps you. Take care. Marko

Subject: One other thing to get From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 22:54:05 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Robo: I almost forgot. There's one other thing to get: a SlimTim East German polishing cloth (or four or five even). These things positively make a typical Makarov blued finish look great. Word has it that these were used by the East German drill units for their ceremonial weapons. All I know is they make my Maks look great. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Lookin to tune my Arsenal Mak!Help From: Tyler To: Robo Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 22:10:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: See the post on April 15 from Serger titled 'BIG MAK Trigger Job Article'. He goes into a thoroughly detailed explanation on a trigger tune up for the Makarov. Also, you may want to look on Makarov.com at the 'Technical Info' section, from there, to the 'Detailed Stripping' area for detailed instructions, with pictures, on the disassembly and reassembly of the gun.

Subject: Replacement Spring From: Kernel To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 17:15:57 (EDT) Email Address: classified Message: Thanks to all for the advice on my ammo question. Now I have two more: is it a good idea to get a new spring for my EG? I do reload,but usually try to stay within mil spec,so I figure a 17# spring will be ok. Secondly,how good is the EG ammo when it comes to reliability,and accuracy? Thanks guys!

Subject: #21 Spring and EG ammo From: MSW To: Kernel Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:54:42 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I use the EG military surplus ammo from Coles and they shoots very well, but it's bit hot and corrosive. I have also tried both the #19 and #21 springs I bought from Karl. I liked the #21 best when using the EG ammo. My accuracy imporved and folks to my right at the range were greatful. The small 16 rounds/box are real handy to use and store perfectly in the 5.56 ammo cans.

Subject: Re: Replacement Spring From: wildtim To: Kernel Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 22:27:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I can't ansewer your second question, but I can take a stab at your first. I recently got the replacment spring, because with the OEM spring I was hitting people three or four shooting stations down from me at the range, now I only hit the people one or two stations down. The gun is just as reliable, and just might last a little longer but other than that no real difference. The only things to keep in mind about the original spring is that it has been in the gun, and slightly compressed for decades, and the military also chose that light spring so the gun would feed and fire after months of care by an undertrained conscript living outdoors under battle conditions, not under the loving care of us gun nuts.

Subject: I agree..... From: PM To: wildtim Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 23:23:31 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You'd be better off with a Wolf 19# spring. I also handload ''lesser'' rounds for plinkin' and, I also shoot a lot of Sellier Bellot, which is not hot at all, and have no problems.

Subject: wolff From: bullet44 To: wildtim Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 22:44:43 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I use the Wolff 19 lb spring in my Mak's, everything feeds, lite reloads, heavy loads.

Subject: OT: CZ-52 problem From: Hound Dog To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 16:41:46 (EDT) Email Address: njcowles@ispchannel.com Message: Hi Guys, I've been lurking here for a while now and have learned a lot. For the record, I've only got one Mak (so far), an EG that I really love. Never had any problems and it's the only pistol I've ever owned that has never had at least one ftf. Now for my problem. I've got a CZ-52 that fails at least once per magazine. It came with 2 magazines and the problem exists with both of them. I polished the feed ramp, but that didn't help. The hung cartridge does not always make it to the feed ramp. I can clear the jam by pulling the slide back and letting go. I've used a variety of ammo with no discernable differences. Does this sound like short cycling? Recoil spring too heavy? Spring too light? Help! I don't know what to do next.

Subject: Fair Warning From: Brmarsh To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 15:38:09 (EDT) Email Address: billmarshall@cableone.net Message: On my newly refinished Russian commercial I attached a laser sight with the mounting kit provided for Makarovs by the sight maker. On the 7th shot of the first mag the slide came off the gun and flew about 12 feet down range. I believe it was caused by the weight of the sight pulling the trigger guard open thereby unlocking the gun. On the next shot the slide came off. I think I am going to try the sight on a gun with a fixed trigger mount.

Subject: Re: Fair Warning From: Brmarsh To: Brmarsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 19:24:36 (EDT) Email Address: billmarshall@cableone.net Message: I did not use the plastic ring that came with the mounting kit. Inherently a sight mounted to a moving trigger guard can't maintain the type of accuracy you want when you get a laser sight. I mounted it on the Mak because it is my favorite shooter as a curosity knowing the Mak would not be its permanent resting place. I think I am done experimenting with the Mak. Next I am going to try it on my CZ-52. If anyone knows of problems with that please let me know. Thanks for your replies.

Subject: Re: Fair Warning From: arcom To: Brmarsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 17:12:13 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've been using a Laserlyte on my Russian 380 hi cap without anything like what happened to you. The sight is just too light. You aren't using the plastic piece that goes between the sight and the lower portion of the slide are you? This piece can't be used on pistols that have moveable trigger guards.

Subject: Re: Fair Warning From: glockdoc To: Brmarsh Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 16:59:29 (EDT) Email Address: fcorotto@ngcsu.edu Message: I remember a similar post from about a year ago. You think the weight of the lazer can't possibly pull the trigger guard down, but during recoil it's the gun moving up, and the inertia caused by the excess mass tends to hold the trigger guard in place. Sorry, physics was a long time ago...Obviously just attaching hanging a lazer won't pull the trigger guard down. I THINK this can be cured with a different trigger guard spring. I think I remember a post from Ilya to that effect. So don't give up yet on attaching a lazer to the mak. The regular sights are useless so if any gun needs lazer sights it's our wondermaks!

Subject: Feed problems From: Freightman To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:21:03 (EDT) Email Address: fglennb@nts-online.net Message: I had a EG mak that jamed some, and my Brother in law has a Russian that does the same. I traded off mine as my wife couldn't pull the slide back, but the other I will have to fix as my BIL doesn't even clean his guns I do it for him out of fear for his life. I haven't polished the feed ramp yet will try that first. What I want to say is not ment as a Flame or a slam to Macks as I liked mine I have a CZ52 that I have put 1000's of rounds through both milsurp and S&B never has it failed to cycle and no jams. The post here seem to put the CZ as a inferiour wepon, but I have not found it so. Just my opinion and would like to hear from the experts on why.

Subject: Some questions . . . From: BRS To: Freightman Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 20:30:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Freightman: What kind of ammo is hanging up? Is there a particular type of cartridge or bullet style that hangs, or a kind that doesn't hang? Does it hang with all your mags or just a particular one? When it hangs, can you describe where the cartridge hangs up? We can help you better with a bit more info. Thanks! BRS

Subject: Re: Feed problems From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Freightman Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 13:38:29 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've got 2 bulgies, and I have polished the feedramp on both. They were rather coarsly machined, so it certainly couldn't hurt. I've never had a failure with mine feeding any ammo. Before/after the polishing job, I could really tell a difference cycling HP ammo by hand, so that might fix your mak. Actually, I polish the feedramps on all of my pistols. Except my Glocks; they have great machine work out of the box.

Subject: Re: Feed problems From: oldguy To: Freightman Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:31:31 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have three Mak's none has jammed in thousands of rounds,I feel it would be an ammo problem or a very dirty gun to cause a ftf.The design and quality of the Mak does not lend itself to many problems.

Subject: Feed problems From: Freightman To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:40 (EDT) Email Address: fglennb@nts-online.net Message:

Subject: Best Ammo for AK-7.62 From: Dale To: All Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:01:35 (EDT) Email Address: demccombs5071@cs.com Message: Many of you folks probably own and shoot Aks as well as Maks just as I do. Has anyone bench tested a variety of 7.62x39 ammo? Did any brand/type rise to the top as more accurate and consistent??

Subject: Best Ammo? From: Kernel To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 19:54:06 (EDT) Email Address: classified Message: I am getting my EG Makarov Friday. I am thinking of getting EG ammo as well,corrosive does store longer. What is the story on the Russian ammo? Which one do you shooters recomend? Thanks

Subject: Wolf & Cor-Bons From: denfoote To: Kernel Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 07:04:08 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I shoot nothing but Wolf, and Cor-Bons!!!!

Subject: Barnaul 95Gr JHP's From: serger To: Kernel Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:53:53 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I bought a case of the Barnaul hollow points from the recommendations of people on this board. I got it through Ammoman.com because I'm west of the mississippi river. It feeds great through all my guns and I've never had a failure to feed/fire with it. The nice thing about it is it opens up well on mixed media(denim over wet newspaper). It opens up to 60+ caliber. And another nice thing is you can practice with the ammo you are going to use! I couldn't be happier with it.

Subject: Re: Best Ammo? From: Paul To: Kernel Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 00:59:15 (EDT) Email Address: santafe66@excite.com Message: I am getting my EG Makarov Friday. I am thinking of getting EG ammo as well,corrosive does store longer. What is the story on the Russian ammo? Which one do you shooters recomend? Thanks --- Barnaul is very good. Had similar experience to other msgs with Wolf/TCW, and Norinco. Sellier & Bellot is good but pricier than most others. See Ammoman.com and Ammodepot.com for good prices if you live west of the Mississippi. Ammoman has Barnaul 95gr HP for $115/1000 including S/H. Dan's through Makarov.com has same for less if you're east of the Miss.

Subject: Re: Best Ammo? From: Tyler To: Kernel Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 23:53:20 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I prefer the NovosibirsK, Russian for cheap ammo. It is 95 grain and a modest load. The Wolf is 109 grain and much hotter and is about the same price. I am able to shoot more consistent goups with the Novosibirsk and is more comfortable to shoot. Go to Makarov.com and select the ammo order form to buy from Dan's Sporting Goods. He is a pleasure to work with and you it's hard to beat his prices. He handles both Novosibirsk FMJ and Barnaul JHP. Both these are good, non-corrosive and dirty shooting (clean your gun), but fairly reliable. For the range, these are fine, but you will get an occaisional hard primer that require a second strike. I would get a name brand for concealed carry.

Subject: Re: Best Ammo? From: jefferson101 To: Kernel Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 20:42:14 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've tried some of most all of the imports, and for both accuracy and consistency, I'm hooked on the Barnaul HP. I wasn't impressed at all with either the TCW or Norinco jacketed stuff. Had a hangfire with the Norinco, too, so that is clearly off my recommended list! And TCW is Wolf without the brand name, so I didn't bother to get any of the Wolf. Also tried that green box stuff that comes by the spam can. (Isthvek?) I guess I just like the Barnaul HP best. Century Arms (www.centuryarms.org) is currently selling the Barnaul for $99/1000 round case, so it's as cheap or cheaper than the jacketed stuff, too. Can't beat getting what seems to work best the cheapest too. BTW, I shoot it in my Russian, EG, and Bulgie. No feed problems anywhere, and no ramp polishing required with any of them.

Subject: Re: Best Ammo? From: Bnkstrs To: Kernel Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 20:31:36 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I use Wolf Ammo for my Bulgie,but,I don't have a lot of experience with other ammo.Wolf works quite well,and I can get it relatively cheap.$65 for 500 rds.

Subject: Barnauls, baby! From: stephen To: Bnkstrs Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 22:01:03 (EDT) Email Address: stephen@sopwithmotorsports.com Message: Great luck with Barnauls after about 500 rounds. Someone on this board had said earlier that they were simply ball ammo with a hole cut in the end, so its good to read that they actually do expand against resistance. They've been very reliable for me and I carry them for defense without hesitation.

Subject: RUSSIAN MAK From: mordecai To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 19:23:40 (EDT) Email Address: annullarium@yahoo.com Message: I purchased what I thought was a Bulgarian Mak for $125 today, but it looked different than the rest come to think of it. I checked the stampings, and it has a double-triangle in a circle which the FAQ says is Russian. Is this the case? Did I get a fixed-sight Russian Makarov instead?

Subject: Re: RUSSIAN MAK From: Gunner To: mordecai Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 13:08:58 (EDT) Email Address: mustang31859@home.com Message: I purchased what I thought was a Bulgarian Mak for $125 today, but it looked different than the rest come to think of it. I checked the --- Where did you find it? Is there anymore???

Subject: Re: RUSSIAN MAK From: Tovarich To: mordecai Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 23:16:48 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That, comrade, is a Soviet Makarov (rather than a commercial Russian piece). Those things are collectible. You got a lucky find!!

Subject: In the words Andrew Dice Clay... From: Marko To: mordecai Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 22:29:39 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: In the words of that great (??) philosopher Andrew Dice Clay, 'You got the bonus prize!' ;) While the import markings and the incorrect 'Bulgaria' stamp reduce the overall value of your Russian somewhat, if it's in excellent shape it can still fetch almost twice what you paid for it. Nice find. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: RUSSIAN MAK From: TENNESSEEAN To: mordecai Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 19:49:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If it's got the triangle, fixed sights and a year date sounds russian to me. Is it import marked? TN

Subject: Re: RUSSIAN MAK From: mordecai To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 21:07:35 (EDT) Email Address: annullarium@yahoo.com Message: Yes - It's marked 1974 I think, but it's been marked Bulgarian and CAI import. Did some Russians get mixed in the the Bulgies over there and they just imported the whole lot?

Subject: Re: RUSSIAN MAK From: OneShot To: mordecai Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:18:39 (EDT) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: . Did some Russians get mixed in the the Bulgies over there and they just imported the whole lot? --- Exactmundo... By the way, if you feel cheated that you didn't get what you paid for, I have a Bulgie I'd be willing to trade you even up...(grin)

Subject: How they got switched up From: Lizard To: OneShot Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 13:38:46 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . Did some Russians get mixed in the the Bulgies over there and they just imported the whole lot? --- Exactmundo... By the way, if you feel cheated that you didn't get what you paid for, I have a Bulgie I'd be willing to trade you even up...(grin) --- The Russian and the Bulgarian Makarovs wouldnt have seen each other. The russians kept thier equipment seperate from the bulgarians, as far as my GF's father says. the mix-up probably came when some schmuck at the importers got 2 boxes and didnt know his ass from his elbows and stamped that 'funny lookin commie gun' all the same.

Subject: Re: RUSSIAN MAK From: TENNESSEEAN To: mordecai Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 21:35:38 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sounds like you got one, I don't think anybody really knows how they came in they just started showing up. Good find esp. if you paid Bulg. price. TN

Subject: Re: RUSSIAN MAK From: mordecai To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 14:05:44 (EDT) Email Address: annullarium@yahoo.com Message: Well hey - that's great. Thanks for all the info. I'm still bewildered by how it got there. With such a late production date, you'd think any 'gifts' from the Russians would have been earlier. BTW - The shop was Butch's in Seattle - and I got the last one he had (IT WAS THE ONE NO ONE WANTED IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT!). But they order in 10-20 every week (and sell'em just as fast).

Subject: Only One!! From: Badger38 To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 15:41:11 (EDT) Email Address: tcoleman@letcher.k12.ky.us Message: Ok guys!,, if you could only have one of those little MAKs to shoot. Which one would it be? and why? Thanks Badger38

Subject: Re: Only One!! From: PM To: Badger38 Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 23:14:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My EG. Not 'cuase it shoots better than the rest, but it looks, and feels better than the rest.

Subject: Gotta go with SgtMaj13: Miltex SE From: Marko To: Badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 22:37:18 (EDT) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: All of my Maks perform well, but for out of the box performance it would be my Miltex SE, hands down. Improved sights, very nice trigger -- especially in SA mode, finger rest floorplate, and frighteningly accurate. The only modification was a Pearce grip. It was my carry Mak until quite recently when my customized Arsenal took its place (and that took a Beast Slide, Beast hammer, molybdenum finish, and an extensive internal polish job to do it). Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Only One!! From: Pussball To: Badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 20:43:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My favorite SHOOTER is my IJ-18AH Russian Hi-Cap. Say what you will about those big clunky target sights, for me they work! The trigger on this gun rivals any EG (and I presently own 4) that I've ever shot, and with the magazine floor plate extender, Pearce grip, and IDK stick-on night sights this pistol is a STUD! It's accurate, rock solid reliable, and just plain fun to shoot. This one in untouchable - I'll never trade or sell this gun! Regards - Pussball

Subject: Re: Only One!! From: TENNESSEEAN To: Badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 19:46:41 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My old workhorse Bulgie, not the best looking or best finished but the best trigger, unreal accuracy and it'll feed anything you stuff in it. nuff said, TN

Subject: Re: Only One!! From: Larrie To: Badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 19:07:17 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have a Bulgie, Russian IJ70 and an EG. I prefer the EG. It's my carry choice because I like the peformance and feel of it better. I can't give a better reason other than I like it the best.

Subject: Re: Only One!! From: SgtMaj13 To: Badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 17:02:52 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Miltex SE Blued. I like square trigger guard, white dot sights, finger rest floor plate on mags, reasonable smooth action out of box, and feeds HP ammo without polishing. Next is my $120 unissued Bulgie that looks and shoots better than many pistols costing three times as much. To each his own.

Subject: ok! So what is a Miltex SE From: badger38 To: SgtMaj13 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 21:07:47 (EDT) Email Address: tcoleman@letcher.k12.ky.us Message: Ok,, so what is a Miltex SE? Where can you get one, and how many bucks willit run me? I know i ask too many questions but I am trying to find out which Makarov to buy next. Badger38

Subject: Re: ok! So what is a Miltex SE From: SgtMaj13 To: badger38 Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 07:38:49 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Miltex Special Edition was a commercially modified Bulgarian Makarov. It came in several different finishes (High Polish Blue, Chrome, and mixed). It came standard with a squared off trigger guard, white dot sights, finger rest magazines (2), a better than average trigger, fit and finish were above average also. The importer stopped bringing them in a couple of years ago. If you can find one in good shape expect to pay $250 or more depending on accessories, condition etc. HTH and good luck with your search.

Subject: Re: P.S. From: Greg S. To: SgtMaj13 Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:07:06 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Miltex was a company who produced the Special Edition from Bulgarian guns. Miltex is out of business. No more Miltex guns will ever be produced, unless someone raises the company, like a phoenix, from its ashes. Greg S.

Subject: Re: ok! So what is a Miltex SE From: OneShot To: SgtMaj13 Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:43:59 (EDT) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: The Miltex Special Edition was a commercially modified Bulgarian Makarov. It came in several different finishes (High Polish Blue, Chrome, and mixed). It came standard with a squared off trigger guard, white dot sights, finger rest magazines (2), a better than average trigger, fit and finish were above average also. The importer stopped bringing them in a couple of years ago. If you can find one in good shape expect to pay $250 or more depending on accessories, condition etc. HTH and good luck with your search. --- I'll have pictures tonight of a few I have picked up. They are fantastic. I have run into a good bit of luck finding them lately. Just hang out with me and they'll come crawling out of the woodwork. Only one!?! like stealing my children in the night...

Subject: Re: Only One!! From: Lawpup To: Badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 16:35:07 (EDT) Email Address: michael@ev1.net Message: The first of my four East Germans. It's the prettiest, and they all shoot equally well.

Subject: Re: Only One!! From: mgjohn To: Lawpup Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 23:07:35 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I had (girlfriend took a liking to it) a Chinese model that shoots great. I am shopping for a East German to go with the Bulgie that I an getting tommorrow. Badger38 will have to take seconds. ha ha ha!!!

Subject: Makarovs and CorBon ammo From: ccmano To: All Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 09:58:42 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: Just got a copy of 'The Ultimate Makarov Guide' where I read 'Accroding to Joe Zambone, of Mag Safe, (Ammo) the Russian Model IJ70 is not compatable with CorBon, Glaser and MagSafe fragable ammunition, as the pistols have too large a throat, in some few cases, and could cause harm to the shooter or bystanders.' Can this be substanciated anywhere else? Has anyone had any experiences in this regard? Do any of you shoot fragable ammo, if so, what happens, any unusual signs of high pressure on the gun or spent cases? Does he mean standard CorBon ammo as well?

Subject: Re: Makarovs and CorBon ammo From: Wetrudgeon To: ccmano Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 18:43:10 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: CCMANO: I own two Ruskie Maks, both .380. They both digest limited amounts of .380 CorBon jacketed hollowpoints with no discernable problems. No signs of excess pressure with the brass. Only thing I notice is that the brass is ejected further from the pistol than with 'milder' loads. However, I don't shoot CorBon often because I fear excess wear. I load my own mild loads for practice and shoot only enough CorBons to assure that they will feed properly. I save the CorBon for the gravest of extremes. We trudge on.

Subject: Response from CoBon From: ccmano To: ccmano Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 18:39:09 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: Here's the response I got from CorBon; 'News to us at Cor-Bon; news to us at Glaser. What would 'Too large a throat' have to do with anything dangerous? It would lower pressure, lower velocity etc. We use German Maks with nary a problem. I have never had a complaint on this from any Mak user, on any model/make/manufacture of Mak pistols. Terry Murbach/Tech Support' Did that answer the question? Or did I miss something?

Subject: Re: Response from CoBon From: denfoote To: ccmano Date Posted: Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 07:01:48 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I got the same message. The original BS must have been nothing more than anti Makarov propaganda!!!!

Subject: Re: Makarovs and CorBon ammo From: ChiliMak To: ccmano Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 15:06:40 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I would heed Mr. Cude's and Mr. Zambone's advice. Excessive pressure in a firearm is nothing to mess with. When the manufacturer says not to use his ammo in the IJ-70 don't! We only get one set of eyes, one life, etc.

Subject: Re: Makarovs and CorBon ammo From: ChiliMak To: ChiliMak Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 22:34:23 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Guys, Perhaps Mr. Cude and Mr.Zambone should be contacted? My only concern is naturally the safety of any shooter. If what you all say are comments from CorBon, perhaps Mr. Cude and Mr. Zambone can answer how they cam to their opinion.

Subject: Re: Makarovs and CorBon ammo From: denfoote To: ChiliMak Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 15:45:44 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I think I will e-mail Cor-Bon, and find out.

Subject: Re: Makarovs and CorBon ammo From: denfoote To: denfoote Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 16:18:15 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I just e-mailed Peter Pi at Cor-Bon concerning this question. I await his reply. I will let you all know what he says.

Subject: Re: Makarovs and CorBon ammo From: ccmano To: denfoote Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 16:33:58 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: Thanks, I did too. lets see if we get the same answer.

Subject: New Makarov? From: badger38 To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 20:43:43 (EDT) Email Address: tcoleman@letcher.k12.ky.us Message: Hi guys! I have just picked up my first Makarov. After looking at some of the inexpensive hand guns in a dealers show case, I noticed this little pistol. It was only $145.00 and although used looked and felt very good. I took it to the range and was shocked to see it shoot great groups. I mean it shoot as good as any glock i had ever shot. Anyway!, It is a Bulgarian and has two circles with a 10 inside of them. I am curious as to what that stands for? Also I am curious about the ten shot Russian model that i have read about, they were also talking about some ultra Ammo for the 10 shot? any help will be great, thanks in advance. These are great little guns. If it were made in the USA it would cost 3 times as much. Badger38

Subject: Mak Hi Cap From: ccmano To: badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:33:44 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: I recently purchased a Russian IJ-70 hi capacity model. The comments about the 10 round magazines are correct, they're crap! They don't feed or load properly. The original Russian 12 rounders work perfectly. I just bought 2 from Karl at Makarov.com and their great. If your thinking about a Hi-Cap Mak, get the Pierce Grip as well, it makes a world of difference. I have a large hand and the original grip was on the large side for me, and uncomfortable too. The Pierce grip makes it seem almost like your holding a standard capacity Mak.

Subject: Re: Ultra Ammo? From: Greg S. To: badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 02:54:08 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Badger! I've heard the Hi-Cap Russkies are fine with true Russian Magazines. Sold here at Makarov.com. Also, There is a 9x18mm Ultra cartridge. However, it is not for the Makarov . The Ultra round is ~.010'' smaller in diameter and should NOT be shot in pistols chambered for the 9x18mm Makarov cartidge. For the Mak, make sure it is 9x18 MAK ammo. The 'circle 10' mark is the factory marking for 'Arsenal' the Bulgarian manufacturer. If your pistol has the word 'Arsenal' on the slide, it was produced for sale here. If it has only the 'circle 10' mark, it is a surplus pistol of one stripe or another. As far as I know, all the Bulgarians have a reputation for accuracy and reliability. HTH!! Greg S.

Subject: Re: New Makarov? From: Tovarich To: badger38 Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 00:07:50 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Go to www.makarov.com. They have lots of good information on Maks (as you might expect). Their FAQs are a little dated, but they're quite helpful. One thing their FAQs mention, incidentally, is that the 10-round Russian Maks seem to be kinda hastily slapped together--don't work properly, etc. Check it out for details. Hope that helps.

Subject: Re: New Makarov? From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: badger38 Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 20:51:46 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Welcome to the club. The 'circle 10' is a military (or police) issue Bulgerian makarov. I have 2 of them, and they're great guns. Just like all Mak's, totally reliable. And you're right, maks are very comfortable in the hand. Also very accurate. Keep it clean, and polish the feedramp, and it will feed anything you give it forever. I carry corbons for extra uumph. IMHO, It would be a bargain at $300, maybe more given its legendary reliability.

Subject: Wanted East German 9x18 ammo From: Richard To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 19:55:44 (EDT) Email Address: samhain@gte.net Message: any body out there want to part with 20 - 25 boxes of the East German Makarov ammo that Cole Distributing has on their page the amount he sells is more than what i need ! thanks :)

Subject: Corrosive Ammo From: MSW To: Richard Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 16:12:09 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've use this ammo before and it shoots well, but is very corrosive. You must clean your pistol right after shooting. I forgot to clean one of my magazine after a day on the range and found it a bit rusty a few days later. You'd be better to order the Russian ammo from Dan's, it's about the same price per round.

Subject: Re: Corrosive Ammo From: Richard To: MSW Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 18:31:08 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Who doesn't clean their pistol after shooting thats half the fun :) besides i have a case of WW2 rifle cleaner corrosive or not this stuff will kill it and may kill you if you not careful i found out the hard way :/

Subject: Sources for makawrap grip From: blazerfan To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 14:28:56 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Any suggestions where I can find a makawrap grip? I'd order one through here, but I guess they've been out of stock for awhile. I would like to have one for my next range trip in a week or so. Is twenty bucks about the going rate? Thanks.

Subject: Re: Back in stock!! From: Greg S. To: blazerfan Date Posted: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:17:52 (EDT) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: See Makarap Order form says they're back in stock!!

Subject: Re: Sources for makawrap grip From: Pussball To: blazerfan Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 20:35:21 (EDT) Email Address: wmsimpson@hotmail.com Message: Blazerfan - I've got a Makawrap I might be willing to part with. E-mail me if you're interested. Regards - Pussball

Subject: Russian PM Price check From: ccmano To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 13:30:53 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: I found an unissued (or close to it) Russian Military Mak, in orignal box, redstar grips with holster and accesories for $395. Sounds a little steep to me but not sure. Whats the going rate? TIA

Subject: Re: Russian PM Price check From: Pm To: ccmano Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 19:33:24 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sounds like Empire Arms. I've heard these are nice Russian PMs, and the fact that they have no import stamps does add to their collector value. You'll pay $350, and up, for a Russian surplus. Pat

Subject: Re: Russian PM Price check From: Bret To: ccmano Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 16:11:58 (EDT) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: It sounds a little steep to me also, but it might be worth it depending on a couple of things. When you say origional box, what do you mean? Is it one of those tan colored ones like most of the Bulgarian PM's came in? If it is, then it really doesn't add value, but if it is some sort of actual Russian box, then that's a definite plus. Is the holster Russian or Bulgarian? An origional Russian military holster will add value. As far as accessories go, does it come with two serial number matching magazines? How is it import marked? If there is no import marking, then it is most desirable. If it is marked 'Made in Bulgaria' along with the importers name, then that is least desirable (in my opinion). If it just has an import marking that doesn't stick out, then the import markings shouldn't effect the value. - Bret

Subject: Re: Russian PM Price check From: ccmano To: Bret Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 16:36:52 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: Good questions. Just called over there and the story changes somewhat. One magazine (numbered to gun) No holster Plain brown box But..... no import marks of any kind? (this could be very good) Any comments?

Subject: Re: Russian PM Price check From: IJ70 To: ccmano Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 13:42:15 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That is the going rate.

Subject: I agree From: arcom To: IJ70 Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 22:54:16 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: And they're not likely to go down, especially for a non-import marked pistol. My only misgiving is they originally came with two matching mags. Empire Arms has them for $395 and while Dennis Kroh is not known for his bargain prices, he does provide qulaity weapons.

Subject: Re: I agree From: Frenchy To: arcom Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 09:10:23 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I purchased mine from Dennis and I agree, You get what you pay for with him. He would be my first choice for a Russian Military!

Subject: Empire Arms From: ccmano To: Frenchy Date Posted: Tues, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:50:17 (EDT) Email Address: hansmy@earthlink.net Message: Yes it is Dennis at Empire. I talked to him yesterday and ordered one. This is my first purchase from Dennis, his reputation is excellent and I have not doubt I'll get a fine gun. Interesting guy to talk to by the way, he told me the story of how he got these. Apparently they were imported in the '80s buy a shop in Philadelphia. 124 of them were just loosely thrown into a crate where they have been ever since. The owner of the shop passed away and Dennis purchsed the crate when the store was being liquidated. The guns were all produced in the early '80s and for some reason have no import marks, he doesn't know why. All the guns were new, came without magazines and probably were never issued. They do have some handling marks largely due to being bounced around loose in the crate. The fact that they have no import marks I and are in excellent condition I feel makes them worth the money. Given the current limited quatity available they can only increase in value.

Subject: Best Place To Buy? From: Tim Croley To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 12:39:19 (EDT) Email Address: tcroley@alaweb.com Message: Where's the best place to get a Mak? Can you get new or never issued Maks or are they all used? Which ones are the best? Thanks! Tim

Subject: Re: Best Place To Buy? From: IJ70 To: Tim Croley Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 13:49:20 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Look in the Shotgun News for dealers that have them. Yes, you can get never issued one. It would be a comercial or service Bulgarian. East German are almost all used. Bulgarian are some used, most not. Russian are also all used and comercial models have adjustable rear sight that neither above makes have.

Subject: Maka the Range Cat From: Eric Marsh To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 12:20:13 (EDT) Email Address: emarsh@austin.rr.com Message: Out at the range yesterday we saw a small tortise shell cat hanging around. This was remarkable in its own since cats hate loud noises. She was very friendly and the owner said she was probably dumped there. So we took her home. She's a great people cat, a terrible cat cat - attacking our other cats on sight. We were trying to come up with a name. Janet didn't like 'Glock' - she said it would sound funny to the neighbors to yell out the back door 'Here Glock, Glock, Glock.' Mak seemed like a boy name. I considered Siggy Stardust but then Janet reminded me of a women we knew in California who's Pagan name was 'Maka Nightmare.' Se our new cat's name is Makarove, or Maka for short. Eric

Subject: Re: Maka the Range Cat From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Eric Marsh Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 15:44:26 (EDT) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Nice name. I also saw your post over on Glocktalk...I wonder how many folks frequent both sites? I'm also on KTOG.org, the Keltec group. Post a pic of the cat.

Subject: Russian Maks From: Hugh Long To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 11:57:16 (EDT) Email Address: gte300p@prism.gatech.edu Message: Are any of the big distributors (ie, SOG, AIM, Etc.) selling Russian Makarovs now? I have my C&R license, and I already have a E. German so I want to get a russian one now. PS, you might want to reply to my email, since I forget to check this board very often

Subject: 109gr Pics From: Brent Vidrine To: All Date Posted: Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 10:59:27 (EDT) Email Address: bvidrine@my-deja.com Message: Sorry I couldn't figure out how to get all 3 pics on pne post.