Archives of Older Discussions

Subject: slimtim, a question?? From: jonjay To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:51:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey these markings a=on the mak are scubbed, I wonder if these pistols have a different origin originally and the bulgarians stamped the circle 10 on these pistols for import into the united states?? or maybe the purchased them from somewhere to issue to their army and had the 10 arsenal refurb them, just a wild hypothesis...JonJay

Subject: Useless post...waiting for my Mak! From: James To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:00:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks everybody for your replies to my earlier inquiries regarding the Bulgarian Mak. I just had my FFL send a copy of his license to the dealer, can't wait to get my Mak. It's amazing that all I hear are good things about these guns. I plan to get Pearce grips, and the nylon, extra-mag holster for sale at Makarov.com, although I am also thinking of getting a surplus shoulder holster, can anybody share experiences with these? Happy shooting.

Subject: Bondage From: Rev Rob To: James Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:38:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My experience is dont bother with a surplus holster unless your into bondage. Ow ow ow Rev Rob

Subject: Fobus paddleholster? From: Thomas To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 06:23:07 (EST) Email Address: gunlovin@hotmail.com Message: Thinking about ordering a Fobus-holster from Karl, the paddle version. I'm gonna use it for (CCW-)competitions. I've read some post who praise it, but I'm unsure if it's a correct choice. Any thoughts? (I allready own the 9$ nylon IWB, but it's not too handy in a IPSC-competition) Also, do I need the 19# spring? Sadly I don't shoot the Mak too often, because of the lack of cheap 9x18 here in Norway (I'm on the brink of handloading 9x18, have allready bought a die-set) Any thoughts would be appriciated. Thomas guns, guns, guns, my life would be so dull without'em.

Subject: Re: Fobus paddleholster? From: Greg S. To: Thomas Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 08:43:23 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Yo, Thomas!! I got a Fobus Paddle holster. It is simple, well made and as light as it is, it seems rugged. I like mine. For CCW it would work fine. However, since the pistol rides outside the pants, you will have to insure it remains concealed by the kind of clothing you wear. IWB holsters seem to me to make it easier to conceal as most of the pistol is allready hidden inside the pants. Thunderwear I haven't tried, but looks like a complete conceal option! :) For competition, I think the Fobus might slow down your draw. Practice could overcome this. I don't shoot competitions, so, I couldn't be definite about this. The Fobus is cheap enough, You could try it and see if it works for you! You may need a 'speed' holster for competitions. Check out: Nolan's Aluminator Way cool!! If you don't regularly shoot heavy loads in the Mak, the stock 17# spring works fine. Buy a spare. You do have to replace the recoil spring if it gets weak. I run the 19# all the time and have had no problems. Reloads are fine! You can tune the load for your pistol. Greg S.

Subject: Need contact info on GSP in Delray Beach Fl From: Shopper To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 00:17:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Anyone has the website/ phone/ address? Thanks

Subject: GSP - NO website, phone (561) 272-9512 (ntxt) From: kraut To: Shopper Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 00:59:53 (EST) Email Address: glconing@yahoo.com Message: nt

Subject: Re: Also no Makarovs From: ? To: kraut Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 08:33:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: 3 Guns Go to the Range From: Rev Rob To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:37:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Three Guns go to the range. A 38 Special snub, A Tanfoglio 10mm and a Russian Commercial Makarov(Played by Natasha). The Makraov said to the others lets shoot a box of shells and see who looks beter. Well wouldnt you know it. After a box of shells Natasha looked clean as day. almost no power residue or anything. Today Natasha was sporting Winchester 380 FMJs. Never jams, shoots stright and shoots cleaner than any gun I have seen. At the rist of being called a 'Lazy Bastard' by Ballbuster I cleaned her anyway:) Rev Rob

Subject: Re: 3 Guns Go to the Range From: Tovarich To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:12:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Natasha obviously shoots cleaner ammo than my uncle's reloads! LOL! (Or the cheap Russian FMJs I got from J&G)

Subject: SlimTim,Tn: HS2000 From: Markus To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 22:35:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I punched up HS2000( I Don't know if you Guy's are interested in this gun but I liked what Marko had to say about it) on one of the search engines and came up With somebody calledHSAmerica(hsarms.com/)(no prices) located in Knoxville on Chapman highway. Are ya'll familiar with it and if so what the asking price for the Hs2000.The wife has been talking about going back to Philly when the kids are on Spring break. I had not planned on going but the above info might make it worth my while. TIA

Subject: Auctions From: Rev Rob To: Markus Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:26:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Also check Gunbroker.com and Auctionarms.com HS america and others sell them there. But I think SOG has them Beat. I believe Bill also said he was getting more. When MY VA check comes im gonna callem. Rev Rob

Subject: Bill's Guns only has a few left From: Marko To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:58:08 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: I spoke with Bill from Bill's Guns tonight. He's only got two or three HS 2000s left. I don't know if the ones SOG is selling are the early versions without the tactical rails, or not. But I'm pretty sure Bill's are the newer ones. Something to consider. Take care. Marko

Subject: Tactical Rails? From: Pussball To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 00:55:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Pardon my ignorance, but what are tactical rails?

Subject: Molded-in rails for mounting... From: Marko To: Pussball Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 02:46:15 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Tactical rails on the HS 2000 would be molded-in rails under the muzzle area for mounting lasers, tactical flashlights, etc. The early HS 2000 models didn't have them. The newer models do. Obstensibley geared toward Law Enforcement. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: SlimTim,Tn: HS2000 From: TENNESSEEAN To: Markus Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:03:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They are the importers, but I don't think they sell any guns there, I talked to one of the guys connected with them this past weekend at Knox show. Tenn Guns had some at the last show but weren't at this one. ST may know more and I plan on checking them out next loafing day in Knox. By the way SOG has them for $249 in their Feb flyer. Best price I've seen anywhere. HTH TN

Subject: Different factory grips From: Kim To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 20:59:52 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have a slimline black grip and two different types of red star grip standard with my maks. One red star is slim and the other has a thumb rest for a right-hander.Both red grips have a star in the centre of the sides and a lanyard ring. Can anyone tell me if these are military or police standard and from what country?

Subject: Re: Different factory grips From: PM To: Kim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 22:17:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Red stars without the thumbrest are Russian/Bulgarian/Chinese military/police, and the black bakelites are E. German military/police. Thumbrest grips of any type are commercial. (to make the pistol importable, under our stupid, pointless criteria)

Subject: Re: Different factory grips From: Vlad To: PM Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:21:15 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: No, red bakelite grips with or without thumbrest are one of several military types made during cold war. I saw both types of these red grips on EG maks long time before any importation began. However, black backlite grips (not plactic ones) points exclusevly to EG

Subject: Vlad, more info please From: kraut To: Vlad Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 00:56:16 (EST) Email Address: glconing@yahoo.com Message: That is very interesting as I didn't know that the EG Maks used the red star grips. I am not doubting you at all, I just didn't know this. Who used the red star grips in the DDR, the police or military? Why did they change to the black grips? Any info you have would be much appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Subject: Re: Different factory grips From: Kim To: Vlad Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 00:55:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks Gents. I wanted to know what the story was on these grips. Out of pure curiosity, were any other type of grips made and used?

Subject: JonJay's Bulgarian Markings From: SlimTim To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 20:04:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Buried below JonJay describes what I though were some unusual markings on his military Bulgie. When I examined my frame under a lighted magnifying glass, I found similar markings, very lightly struck, and quite small. Perhaps these are common? If you have a military Bulgarian, please read the thread below and respond here as to whether you find something similar or not. Thanks! SlimTim Post on Bulgie frame markings www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=mak12&id=14264.57762458328707

Subject: Re: JonJay's Bulgarian Markings From: Pussball To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 22:15:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mine is a 'PW Arms Redmond, WA' import like JonJay's, but it has no additional markings after the serial number, only a couple of tool marks. I checked with a 10X magnifier.

Subject: Re: JonJay's Bulgarian Markings From: TENNESSEEAN To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 22:10:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: No such marks here. TN

Subject: Re: JonJay's Bulgarian Markings From: PM To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 21:56:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: There's something (looks like a C)after the SN on mine. I can't find a %#*!! magnifying glass right now! I'll try to get a magnified view of it, and I'll let you know. Pat

Subject: Re: JonJay's Bulgarian Markings From: Dean To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 21:48:41 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: I've seen some with markings on the frame just after the serial number. I'll check mine with a magifying glass later. Also, I've noticed that Bulgarian Maks all seem to have a serial number beginning with two letters, then two numbers, and then three or four numbers, all with a space in between. The letters are sometimes cyrillic, of course. Is it a secret code? Check your email, ST.

Subject: Re: JonJay's Bulgarian Markings From: pa To: Dean Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:46:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've seen some with markings on the frame just after the serial number. I'll check mine with a magifying glass later. Also, I've noticed that Bulgarian Maks all seem to have a serial number beginning with two letters, then two numbers, and then three or four numbers, all with a space in between. The letters are sometimes cyrillic, of course. Is it a secret code? Check your email, ST. --- My Bulgarian also has the serial # starting with 2 letters,2 #'s and 4 #'s with a space in between each set. Also has what looks like a 'C' in a circle and an upside down '50' after the serial #.

Subject: (OT)Tanfoglio Witness From: Rev Rob To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 17:03:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hust to update you guys. You ay remember that My 10mm was locking open consistantly before the last roud. Well I convinced EAA it was the mag and they excahnged it for a new one rather quickly and free of charge. The new mag and another I purchased work great, no hang ups at all. So I guess we were right it was the mag. My wife and I shot it our Baikal and Rossi M88 today all fine guns. Thanks Rev Rob

Subject: correct dry firing From: jlflegal To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 14:18:40 (EST) Email Address: jlflegal@am.pnu.com Message: I will be carrying my Mak for CCW and I want to practice drawing and firing double action. To protect my firing pin I think I should have a dummy cartridge in the chamber, but here arises the question-how do I place it in the chamber? I think I read here once that just putting a round in the chamber and activating the slide could strain the extractor, is that true? Does the extractor slide up behind the case or does it snap over the rim? Would it be better to load the mag with the round and then cycle the slide normally to chamber it?

Subject: Re: correct dry firing From: Dean To: jlflegal Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 21:17:29 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: Why not just take the firing pin out for dry firing?

Subject: Re: correct dry firing From: MAB To: jlflegal Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 16:18:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You won't harm your Mak firing pin by dry firing. Snap caps can be had from Makarov.com, however, if you want them. Always load any semiauto chamber from the magazine to avoid firing pin damage. To let the slide close on a chambered round can cause damage to the fp. The cartridge is supposed to slide up under the breech face under the fp claw.

Subject: Re: correct dry firing From: Greg S. To: MAB Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 07:54:30 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Hey Guys! If you look at the underside of your Mak slide, you'll see a fork looking thingy. This pushes the round out of the magazine. It also prevents the round from sliding up under the extractor claw. When the round chambers in the Mak, the extractor claw snaps over the rim on the case. The extractor has alot of travel due to the spring and plunger design. It is also hardened, very tough. Breech loading the Mak and closing the slide does the same thing as magazine loading. Other makes of pistol do work as MAB points out. In fact, my 1911's load precisely as MAB describes, since the breech face is flat all the way down to the part which strips the round from the magazine. Still, on the 1911, the extractor claw is built to also snap over the rim, if the case does not load properly or you drop one down the breech and close the slide. However, that is not its normal mode of operation. In any case, how any of this is hard on the firing pin, I don't know. The firing pin is subjected to forces many times greater when you fire the gun. Some pistols should not be dry fired because of their design and materials (see CZ-52), some can be. In general, I would say use snap caps for dry firing, unless you remove the firing pin. The Mak design seems mighty resistant to breakage under any circumstances. I think the ear foam idea was clever. He put a foamy in the chamber and cut one in half, put that in between the firing pin and hammer. I use snap caps my self. Karl sells nice Azoom and EG dummy rounds. I recommend using these for dry fire or user practice with any pistol or rifle! Get some practice rounds and hand cycle the actions while looking in the ejector port. You'll see what I mean. Mechanical engineering CAN be fun!! DO NOT use live ammo to play with your gun under any circumstances!!! (I'll tell you how my brother shot my workbench some other time). :o Greg S.

Subject: Re: correct dry firing From: landisbear To: MAB Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 18:27:15 (EST) Email Address: landisbear@hotmail.com Message: somewhere back in these files, last summer I think... someone said 'place an old foam earplug between hammer and sear-pin,or whatever. and this will cushion the blow/force....anyone agree, or disagree???????? good luck

Subject: Dean's post answered it! From: PM To: landisbear Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 22:03:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just pull the firing pin out, and dry-fire away. A word of advise-(from experience) replace the firing pin, before loaning the pistol out for target shootin'!:)

Subject: Tokarev holsters From: Carlos Z To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 00:38:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just looking for info on what holsters are out there for the TT-3 and it's knock-offs. Other than the cordauroy lined issue holster, what else is out there? If I do go with surplus leather, would the Lahti holster work? Are there any new holsters out there that would fit, either for hip or shoulder/CCW carry?

Subject: Mak parts kit share arrived From: Fyodr To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 00:17:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Got my share today of the first $US400 mak spare parts kit. Very happy. Being a long way from the US it took a little longer to arrange and travel. Thanks to Richard and others who made it possible.

Subject: FEG Hi-Power? From: Boogalou To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 21:17:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Somewhat OT, but does anyone have any experience with the FEG PJK-9HP Hi-power clone. I'm interested in Hi-powers but the real thing is just to expensive. Thanks in advance.

Subject: Re: FEG Hi-Power? From: zulu95 To: Boogalou Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:22:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I own one of these FEG's and can tell you that this is better than any hi-power I have shot! I am told by my smith that these guns are made by Browning and sent to FEG for final assembly amd inspection. He also informed me that any of these guns he has had in the shop tested harder than 'factory' hi-powers. He also claimed that they would outlast the Brownings too! I had the mag safety removed and my trigger is wonderful. I can empty mag after mag into a not too large hole all day. A friend bought one of these in a pawn shop recently on my say so. It looked horrible but outperformed his .40 Browning that he had from new. He now says that next to his Glock this would be his choice for carry. IMHO this is one of the best buys around. I paid $159.95 new for it 3 years ago and tricked it out a little and still have change left out of what I would have paid for a Browning!

Subject: Re: FEG Hi-Power? From: RucSac To: Boogalou Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 20:10:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: OK I am going to differ from the other answers you got. I have a FEG and have shot several 'real' Brownings, simple answer - I'll take my FEG any day of the week. It is much more accurate than any of the Brownings, fit just as good if not better and finish surpasses the Brownings by a long mile. I admit when I first got the FEG the trigger was on the gritty side but that was cured by having the mag safety removed. The only problem I've had was with an after market mag. The FEG, when I do my part, will put a full mag into one big hole, and I also agree with you that Brownings are too expensive. They are one of the gun names that have status attached to them and a draw an inflated price. Also shoot the FEG day in day out your hand will drop off before the FEG gives out.

Subject: Re: FEG Hi-Power? From: J.F.D. To: Boogalou Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:14:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I believe that in last months SOG flyer (jan) they had Belgian HP's reconditioned in the $299 range, don't have the flyer handy but somebody here may have it. This is a little more that a FEG but it is a 'REAL HP' HTH JIM

Subject: Re: FEG Hi-Power? From: Markus To: Boogalou Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 21:54:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: They are supposed to be good guns. Mine however has been a lemon. JAM CITY and then the hammer would not drop. I'm picking it up from the dealer tomorrow. Supposely it is now fixed. We'll see. also post on An unoffical Browning Hi Power Page

Subject: Re: FEG Hi-Power? From: BP To: Markus Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:25:07 (EST) Email Address: b_price@bellsouth.net Message: They are supposed to be good guns. Mine however has been a lemon. JAM CITY and then the hammer would not drop. I'm picking it up from the dealer tomorrow. Supposely it is now fixed. We'll see. also post on An unoffical Browning Hi Power Page --- I have both FEG PJK9 and one of AIM's Israeli surplus Hi-Powers. The FEG had a jamming problem from the start. I sent it back to KBI and after a lengthy period in their hands, it came back and has not had a jam since. I also think the magazines that were provided were lower quality. (Some speculated that some dealers were swapping the Hungarian hi-caps for cheaper ones. Wouldn't be surprised). Now for the good news....the pistol is beautifully finished and a pleasure to use. The consensus on the Hi-Power board is that these are fine unless you want to put a thousand rounds a month through it. A good deal for the $230 I paid. The AIM Israeli HP is a great deal (they are out now but should get some more). Mine had a chipped epoxy paint finish over a phosphate coating. Some posters discussed stripping the paint and having a nice military finish. I took a bit of steel wool and mineral spirits and cleaned mine up a bit. Internally, it's an almost new pistol with two Made in Belgium marked mags. With shipping and transfer fee ($15 and $20 respectively), it was about $335. It'll be a keeper. HTH BP Atlanta

Subject: Re: FEG Hi-Power? From: Ken M To: BP Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 02:29:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Over the years I have owned 2 FEG PJK9HP's. I was not happy with either one of them. I have also had an Argentine FM HI-Power and a newer comercial Browning. The FM was every bit as good as the real McCoy except in the finish department. For my money I would go with one of the Israeli or the FM. JLD has the FM listed on web page for 310. http://www.jldenter.com/JLD%20Pistols%20page.htm

Subject: Where is Comrade Ilya? From: Markus To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 21:06:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: IJ-70??? From: SlimTim To: Markus Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:04:25 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I was thinking he changed his nick to IJ-70, then IJ-70 disappeared too! Hope he returns. ST

Subject: Down a coupla' threads (ntxt) From: PM To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 00:41:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Soviet Navy Mak holster From: Rik To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 20:05:30 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: picture of Soviet Navy Mak holster being auctioned at yahoo if anyone is intrested. in case pic doesnt come out, check it out on yahoo by clicking auctions, then entering 'makarov'. you'll see the holster and some hockey player cards. i think the holster looks pretty neat... i3.ac.yahoo.com/users/5/5/3/0/dutovimg500x518-968987945kobyra.jpg

Subject: Re: Soviet Navy Mak holster From: TENNESSEEAN To: Rik Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 21:40:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Wonder how he knows it a navy holster, I have one like it and while it has all kind of markings inside but I see nothing that makes me think it naval. It is nice and different. TN

Subject: Re: Soviet Navy Mak holster From: Rik To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:01:21 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: maybe the bit of brass-work here and there makes it look a little more maritime or something, i dont know. you know how 'antiques from 1978' can be! i guess if i were intrested, id contact the individual auctioning the holster and ask him.

Subject: Re: Soviet Navy Mak holster From: Ron W. To: Rik Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 13:58:53 (EST) Email Address: ronsw@fastlane.net Message: What makes this Navy is that it is black and the way it attaches to the belt. I have a few of those, one with the belt that came with lanyard. Very nice.

Subject: Re: Soviet Navy Mak holster From: vlad To: Ron W. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:14:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Correct. If it is navy, it get attached to the belt by long straps rather than just loop or two loops.

Subject: Now Where? From: OneShot To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 18:27:21 (EST) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: OK guys... Now that AIM, Century and GSP are out of EG Maks where would you all sugguest is the best place to buy EG Makarovs? I know SOG still has 'em for around 150 (plus 10 handpicked option) Any other sugestions? I was thinking about picking up another to 'put back'

Subject: Re: Now Where? From: Tyler To: OneShot Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 20:24:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I guess I got some of the last from GSP. I received four on Saturday. However, SSME Deutsche Waffen (ssmedwi.com) still shows they have some East Germans for $145. They also have a good deals on CZ 75b and Star Model B.

Subject: Re: Now Where? From: anasazi joe To: OneShot Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 19:25:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: one shot, i just ordered one from wholesale guns & ammo for the prices that you mentioned. since i just ordered last friday... i've yet to see it. i found the ad in shotgun news and as of late last week and they had 'em. since i'm new to computers and the makarov {although that bug is bad, the EG Mak is the third makarov in three weeks} i not sure which is the worst of two evils ... i hope this message reaches you, and you can make your purchase. you can check them out on the web at www.gunsnammo.com. although this is my first purchase from them i'm not sure about their quality or service, however my local gun dealer uses them occasionally, and he did not make any statements, negative or positive. at any rate i hope that you get your EG Mak, so you too can two ot three or... A.J. PS hello to azgunslinger, i'm hanging out here in apache junction, where are you located?

Subject: East Valley From: Brother Mak To: all Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:35:47 (EST) Email Address: brothermak67@hotmail.com Message: I'm not azgunslinger, but I am a fellow pseudo-Phoenician. Greetings from the East Valley. Gilbert, AZ here. ~BM

Subject: Re: East Valley From: Anasazi Joe To: Brother Mak Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 05:53:17 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Brother Mak, I've seen your comments several times here, did not know you were here in the valley. I have been wearing down a path between J & G Sales up in Prescott and the Rio Salado Gun Club. Hope to run into you out there... seems you know quite alot about the Maks... and I find myself in the hunt for more info. My wife and I are usually at the Club every other weekend, or just after a mew purchase, LOL. I load and she shoots..somethings wrong with that picture...go figure. Hope to run into you, or if you post any info in the Maks, I'll be looking for it. A.J.

Subject: Re: East Valley From: Brother Mak To: all Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 06:54:07 (EST) Email Address: brothermak67@hotmail.com Message: Let's just say that everytime I'm on I-17 my car automatically takes the Prescott exit...lol. I have a membership to Rio Salado myself. Me, and a few other toys make the trip usually during the week when there's less people. You load and she shoots huh? Could be worse, she could be out buying a ton of shoes instead. ;) Hope to see ya there ~BM

Subject: Re: White pages? From: Anasazi Joe To: Brother Mak Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 22:55:07 (EST) Email Address: anasazijoe@aol.com Message: Brother Mak, I tried to send you an e-mail this a.m. but it did'nt reach you. I tried the address on the page here but maybe I don't have all the info. At any rate I managed to get my EG Mak today, and after getting all the paper work filled out I took it to the range...had to borrow some patches just to clean the bore out to shoot. And shoot it does... man do I love this one. after some initial sight adjustments, I was on target, this thing is sweet. And life gets better, I've got some work to do tomorrow in Prescott {this just couldn't play out any better}, so I'll be making the mecca to J&G. Copy my address and send me some info on your maks, I'm really interested to know if you've done any type of trigger clean up, or any type of modification, etc. A.J.

Subject: Chinese 53 vs CZ 52... From: Brian To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 17:47:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm going this weekend to shoot a Chinese Model 52 pistol: is it safe to shoot sub-gun ammo in these? That's all I have in stock, but I don't want to 'chance it' as the gun is not mine. Not mine, but for sale...are they worth $100? Thanks~Brian

Subject: Re: Chinese 53 vs CZ 52... From: Kyrie To: Brian Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 20:52:55 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: I'm going this weekend to shoot a Chinese Model 52 pistol: is it safe to shoot sub-gun ammo in these? That's all I have in stock, but I don't want to 'chance it' as the gun is not mine. Not mine, but for sale...are they worth $100? Thanks~Brian --- Hi Brian, The Chinese did not produce a pistol like the CZ 52. The produced and used the TT-33 Tokarev pistols as the Type 54. There exist some Chinese Type 51 pistols, and these are Soviet Russian made and supplied TT-33 pistols provided to the Chinese before the Chinese were set up to produce their own Tokarevs. Hope this helps! Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: Re: Chinese 53 vs CZ 52... From: RonD To: Brian Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 18:43:13 (EST) Email Address: rkdenzer@worldnet.att.net Message: If you're talking about the Tokarev type pistol, I wouldn't use hot loads. S&B is fairly cheap ammo and reloadable too.

Subject: No the Chinese Model 52 From: Brian To: RonD Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 20:15:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If you're talking about the Tokarev type pistol, I wouldn't use hot loads. S&B is fairly cheap ammo and reloadable too. --- The chinese made a copy of the CZ 52 and called it the 'Model 52', not the TT-33.

Subject: Re: No the Chinese Model 52 From: Markus To: Brian Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 20:37:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Can you post a pic? Because I thought the same as RonD.

Subject: Will try this weekend. ntxt From: Brian To: Markus Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 23:34:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: SOG From: Rev Rob To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 16:51:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: For some reason I have not gotten a SOG catalog. I wrote to ask if theybgot my C&R, so ill have to wait for a reply. I see they have EGs on thier web site but no price? Are they in the catologe if so how much. Rev Rob

Subject: Re: SOG on the way From: Rev Rob To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 23:57:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just got an E-mail from SOG saying they got my C&R and mailed out a catalog to me. He said soemtimes it takes them a while to get you on the list. Rev Rob

Subject: Re: SOG From: mike h To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 19:00:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: This question has probably been asked a thousand times but what is SOG's web address? Thanks Mike H

Subject: http://www.southernohiogun.com/ From: Rev Rob To: mike h Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 19:13:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://www.southernohiogun.com/

Subject: Re: SOG From: OneShot To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 18:16:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: For some reason I have not gotten a SOG catalog. I wrote to ask if theybgot my C&R, so ill have to wait for a reply. I see they have EGs on thier web site but no price? Are they in the catologe if so how much. Rev Rob --- I got my..early even! I usually get it the middle of the month though. The EG Maks are back to the 150 range (148 I believe)

Subject: more info on mak markings From: jonjay To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 16:35:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It has the circle 10 then a backwards N then H 18 XXX the what looks like a diamond facing upwards then (42) then . what looks like a peen mark, like on the top of the CZ-52's 10 NH 18xxx 437^(42)

Subject: Re: more info on mak markings From: IJ70 To: jonjay Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 16:50:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Bulgrarian PM. Backward ''N'' is equivalent of English ''ee'' and ''H'' is English ''n''.

Subject: CZ-52 ammo I.D. From: Bill H To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 16:30:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: hello guys, I have been away for awhile so it's time to catch up! I have a question on CZ-52 Ammo, I remember there used to be a web page with I.D.'s on it but I can't seem to find it anymore so I hope someone here can help. I picked up some ammo on strippers with the following head stamps: 1, 12 olcock postion has a 'star', 9 oclock has a '3', the 3 oclock has a '10' and the six oclock has a '48'. 2, 12 oclock has 'BXN', 7 oclock has a '53' and the 5 oclock has a '1'. I remember the story of Machine gun ammo being sold on strippers and that it was unsafe to shoot thru the pistol so I want to be sure that if this stuff is that I can sort it away from my other CZ ammo. Also I have been reloading with seirra 85 grn. round nose and accurate powder and getting around 1980 FPS out of this little pistol... sure is an eyeopener..... Thanks Guys, Bill H

Subject: G.S.P. SOLD OUT of E.G. Maks From: ? To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 11:51:34 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: As of 2/6/2001 GSP is SOLD OUT of all Makarovs,mags etc.The deal is gone to late don't bother calling.Beware,other dealer prices going up soon.Their competition has ended.

Subject: Re: G.S.P. SOLD OUT of E.G. Maks From: J.F.D. To: ? Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 21:54:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I believe that GSP bought all the EG maks he had from SSME as I think this was the import mark on the GSP pistols. As I had noted back in Dec. the EG's will dry up soon. ' He Who Hesitates Is Lost' JIM

Subject: Re: G.S.P. SOLD OUT of E.G. Maks From: SlimTim To: J.F.D. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:11:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Richard is an importer. I think he works with SSME sometimes, but perhaps not. In any case, he sure can move the Maks. Thanks to Richard/GSP, we had it good for awhile!! I had too many on hand from AIM's $119 sale to buy any more, so I missed out completely. Federal Arms, Burns Brothers a/k/a Wholesale Guns and SOG all have EG maks in their current ads, so the supply is not dried up yet. Arcom noted some time ago these things come and go, just when you think you've seen the last of them, a couple of months later someone brings more into the country. Unfortunately, none seem to price their EGs like Richard. Question to poster using '?' as his name: Are you Richard? SlimTim

Subject: Re: G.S.P. SOLD OUT of E.G. Maks From: Serg To: ? Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 20:01:18 (EST) Email Address: ecuriousme@yahoo.com Message: Dang! I was gonna send payment for 3 of em tomorrow... I just called Richard and he did in fact confirm that some wholesaler bought all he had left, no more EG Maks or mags. Well I am glad that I at least got a couple of em.... oh well. Serg

Subject: 9mm ultra From: Eugene To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 11:24:17 (EST) Email Address: Eugene_Golubtsov@Merck.com Message: Hi everyone. I have a question: I have a PPSuper in 9 mm Ultra. Can I use 380 acp or 9mm Makarov if not , than why not. Thanks.

Subject: Re: 9mm ultra From: Dean To: Eugene Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 18:23:01 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: This was discussed on this board last week-end. You might want to scroll back to Saturday, Feb. 3. Kyrie points out that both .380 and 9x18 Makarov have a bullet diameter which is larger than 9mm. I took the slide off my PP Super and tried to put a 9x18 Makarov and .380 in the chamber. They won't go. The .380 is actually 9x17, so it's also too short. See what Kyrie has to say about improper headspacing. Hope this helps.

Subject: Re: Actually ! From: J.F.D. To: Dean Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:23:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Dean; 380 acp and 9mm para. actually have the same bullet diameter .355 or 9.02mm the makarov bullet diameter is .363 or 9.22mm HTH JIM

Subject: 380 Subsonic 125Gr L_rn From: WhiteHorze To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 10:34:08 (EST) Email Address: WhiteHorzeOrd@aol.com Message: For my 380 Mak ( Russian ) 1.5 grains of Bullseye under a 125 Grain Lead Round nose bullet functions just fine , recoil is near nil , and penetrates about 4-6 Inches in dry phonebooks . Perfect load for use with a Can ... WhiteHorze

Subject: Re: 380 Subsonic 125Gr L_rn From: Brian To: WhiteHorze Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 17:51:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's the closest commercial round to aomething like this?

Subject: P-83 From: Oregon Steve To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 10:32:52 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's the skinny on those P-83's being offered at Empire Arms? They claim to be an improved MAK.

Subject: Here's the scoop From: Bret To: Oregon Steve Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 11:58:35 (EST) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: Here's the scoop. The importer of the P-83's is Delvar of USA. I bought both models of the P-83 from them a couple of years ago. I paid about $240 each. I spoke to the guy who runs the show there and he said that he has both models available for $234 each and they come with two magazines. It looks like Empire Arms must have bought some from him. When they state 'This is the very first time we have ever seen these offered in the U.S.', they evidently didn't look very hard. They have been available since 1997 (the date on one of my pistols). The pistols feel and shoot very similar to Makarovs. If you are a collector of Makarovs and/or Eastern European pistols, you should have a P-83 in your collection. The link is below. I hope this information helps. http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4050/guns.html - Bret

Subject: Re: Here's the scoop From: Dennis Kroh (Empire Arms) To: Bret Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 20:29:16 (EST) Email Address: kroh@empirearms.com Message: Here's the scoop. The importer of the P-83's is Delvar of USA. I bought both models of the P-83 from them a couple of years ago. I paid about $240 each. I spoke to the guy who runs the show there and he said that he has both models available for $234 each and they come with two magazines. It looks like Empire Arms must have bought some from him. When they state 'This is the very first time we have ever seen these offered in the U.S.', they evidently didn't look very hard. They have been available since 1997 (the date on one of my pistols). The pistols feel and shoot very similar to Makarovs. If you are a collector of Makarovs and/or Eastern European pistols, you should have a P-83 in your collection. The link is below. I hope this information helps. http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4050/guns.html - Bret --- Hey, I HONESTLY had not seen these for sale before! I *DIDN'T* say they had not been offered for sale before, I merely stated that I had not seen them (and, despite me ''not looking too hard'' as you insinuate, I very simply had not run into them until now). Great timing, though, as DEVLAR USA is going out of business and will not be importing any more anyway. Finally, some of my pistols are dated 1997 also, but that doesn't mean they were imported then. Whatever!

Subject: Re: Here's the scoop From: phredpI To: Bret Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 13:00:28 (EST) Email Address: fpelchen@csonline.net Message: I also have a P-83 which was one of the first 100 imported by Dalvar. Ser # 00X dated 1994. fwiw phredp

Subject: Re: P-83 From: Guard88 To: Oregon Steve Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 11:17:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's the skinny on those P-83's being offered at Empire Arms? They claim to be an improved MAK. --- The Vanad P-83 was adopted by the Polish Army in 9X18 to replace the Tokarev 7.62X25 , and is their equivalent of the Makarov. Triggers are said better, Maks?? Basically thought its another Eastern European pistol like the Maks from Russia , EG and Bulgaria and the PA-63 from Hungary ( $89.95 @ SOG ) and the CZ 83 ( $200 from Dan's ). At $ 300 , the Vanad seems expensive.

Subject: HS America's position: Beretta mags... From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 04:23:51 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: I e-mailed HS America (Intrac) and asked them whether Beretta 92FS hi-cap mags would work in the HS 2000, and I asked them what their official position was upon doing so. Not surprisingly, they didn't address the legality of this subject, but they did give me the following reply: ''Intrac Arms and HS America do not condone the modification of high capacity beretta 92 mags but if done properly, it will fit the HS 2000.'' So now what? Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: HS America's position: Beretta mags... From: J.F.D. To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:29:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My thought on the subject is if you are going to the range and you !JUST HAPPEN! to have a 92FS mag in your range bag, then slap it in and let it rip, on the other hand if you intend to use this pistol for CCW use then BEST to keep everything on the up & up. You don't want to get yourself caught between a ROCK and a HARD place. my $.02 JIM

Subject: Re: HS America's position: Beretta mags... From: Warthog To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 00:47:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: So now what? --- It's your pistol! My view is ''Just do it''

Subject: Re: HS America's position: Beretta mags... From: Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 18:18:11 (EST) Email Address: houndawg3@aol.com Message: I talked to a guy at HS America and asked him if there were any mags that were compatible with the HS2000. He told me it was 'rumored' that the Beretta mags would fit. He said the company is saying nothing official on the matter. By the tone of his voice, he was telling me that the mags will work, just don't tell anybody that matters that he told me about it.

Subject: Another reply from HS... From: Marko To: Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 20:02:28 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hi Rob: The Beretta mags will definitely fit. I know this for two reasons: 1) I took my HS to a local dealer and we popped in a Beretta hi-cap. Except for the mag-catch hole, it fit like a glove. 2) I received a reply from HS America to a follow-up question that I e-mailed to them. Basically, I told them that I understood from a liability standpoint that they couldn't condone the use of another manufacturer's magazines, but could they tell me if they aware of any BATF regulations that would prevent a non-LEO from using the Beretta hi-cap mags. What I was hoping for was a statement along these lines: 'While we don't condone the use of another manufacture's magazines....yadda, yadda, yadda...we are not aware of any regulations that would prevent you from doing so. But please contact the BATF...yadda, yadda, yadda...' Either that, or I was hoping they would say it was their belief that a non-LEO is prohibited from modifying such a magazine. What I received instead was this: 'Yes, the beretta mags will work as long as you use the floorplates and follower from the HS mag. Also be sure that the retention hole is the correct distance from the top of the mag. Both of these steps will assure that you will not break the extractor.' Does that sound like a 'wink-wink, nudge-nudge' to you? I won't perform the modification until I'm sure of the legality, but I wish I could have gotten them to commit a little more strongly than that. I'll keep you posted. Take care. Marko WHat I received

Subject: Re: Another reply from HS... From: Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:09:06 (EST) Email Address: houndawg3@aol.com Message: Thanks. I don't have my HS in my paws yet(maybe tomorrow). Essentially, what they are saying is, make it look just like an HS mag so there can be no questions. But what about the fact that there are no non-LEO full cap mags made for the gun? Are Beretta mags labeled as such like SIG mags are? Will the mag work with the Beretta follower and floorplate? Better yet, will the Beretta work with the HS follower and floorplate since a mag modified for use in a pistol must still work in its original pistol? Questions, questions, questions.

Subject: Re: HS position on A/M grips and . . . From: BRS To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 05:53:54 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . barrels is probably similar; as a policy they may not condone the installation of (inevitable) aftermarket grips and barrels on their handguns, but if fabricated correctly they will fit . . . Not that I am condoning the use of Beretta magazines or aftermarket barrels or grips . . . :} IMO, BRS

Subject: EG and Bulgarian From: chen To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:06:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: is there a big quality differents between a EG makarov and a Bulgarian one? i see a pretty cheap EG makarov at gunbroker.com (http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?item=937526) but i am going to be on the road early friday morning so if even if i win the auction i still would have to go through alot of hassle in order to get it. i just want know if its worth it or not, i mean, there is Bulgarian makarovs sale for 99 dollors each, and why are the EG maks always more expansive? is it just cus they are 'rare'? chen

Subject: Re: EG and Bulgarian From: BMG To: chen Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:16:07 (EST) Email Address: Message: The finish on the E.G.'s is usually better and their quality is considered by most to be superior. That is why they command a premium. HTH BMG

Subject: Re: EG and Bulgarian From: Serg To: BMG Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 09:19:20 (EST) Email Address: ecuriousme@yahoo.com Message: Plus EG Maks are C&R Eligible which is a big plus. That is the main reason they are more expensive I believe. Serg

Subject: ID Czech/German From: MacMakMan To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 23:40:25 (EST) Email Address: mcdmck@hotmail.com Message: I am a Makarov newbie having just obtained a Mak at a local pawnbroker. One side is marked 'CZECH' the other side bears a Centruy Arms International stamp (CAI ST ALB VT) as well as being double stamped 'GERMANY'. Serial Numbered side also has a lower case 'y' surrounded by five stars. Serial numbers (AZ 3891) match and pistol has red star grips. When where and how? Any information appreciated.

Subject: Re: ID Czech/German From: Tovarich To: MacMakMan Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 00:26:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That's a good one. Sounds like it might actually be a CZ. The Mak wasn't/isn't produced in Czechoslovakia, and the markings don't sound like Mak markings (but could easily be importer stampings). Have a look at the photos they have on makarov.com. Does it look like a Makarov, or a CZ?

Subject: Re: ID Czech/German From: MacMakMan To: Tovarich Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 09:09:30 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The pistol is definitely a Makarov or it's identical twin. It is not a CZ. I was calling around to local pawn shops and found this one. When I asked the owner what the markings were he said 'Czech'. I assumed what he had was a CZ or the like but went ahead and took a look at it - saw it was a Mak, the pistol was in very good condition, the price was right, and here we are. I have looked at the Mak markings for East German, Russian, and Bulgarian but this is some different variant. One side has the Serial Number and CZECH, also the number 61 at the slide butt near the trigger. The other side has the CAI Stamp and is struck in two places 'GERMANY'. To add to the confusion the pistol came with the original holster and two mags - The holster is the Russian Brown, NOT the EG Burgundy! Quite a head scratcher. I will try and get some jpegs out later in the week. Thanks for your interest. - Mac

Subject: Re: ID Czech/German From: McPhil To: Tovarich Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:37:05 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Is there a date on the left side of the frame where the y and stars are??? I have an AZ serialed E.G. also. McPhil

Subject: Re: ID Czech/German From: MacMakMan To: McPhil Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 09:15:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: McPhil, Being a newbie, it is my assumption that the number 61 refers to the year of production? I forgot to mention that in my original description. The pistol is a Makarov with Red Star grips. Came in a Russian Holster with both original Mags. However, I see no Russain Markings on the piece. Just the import stamps from CAI and 'GERMANY' on one side and 'CZECH' and the serial numbers, and '61' on the other. Quite a puzzle! Thanks for the help. - Mac

Subject: Re: ID Czech/German From: CW To: McPhil Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:59:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sounds really interesting... can you post photos? -Chris

Subject: Re: ID Czech/German From: MacMakMan To: CW Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 09:16:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'll try and get some phots up within the week. Thanks. - Mac

Subject: Guns &AMMO Handguns From: Rev Rob To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 23:19:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hay has anyone seen the latest Guns and ammo handgun issue. First if your a CZ 75 fan youll love it. Second: There is a rousing story about how kick but 380s can be. Roaaaaar!!!! :) (Hear Natasha) Third there is a 380 Sig article (forgot which one) But ill be darned if this new modern gun broken down aint the spitin immage of a tried and true MAkarov, is it me? Rev Rob

Subject: Re: Guns &AMMO Handguns From: CC Coleman To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 06:31:28 (EST) Email Address: exexpat93@aol.com Message: 230/230 Sig looks and acts like a Maky? I saw the new Euro police .32's in their 230 designation and it turned me toward the Makarov. It had all the features I wanted but the price tag was stupid. The Mak had all that and a low price. I also must be the only person in the US to get a a clean and fully functional Bulgarian. Maybe it was a E. Jerry that was sneaky across the Bulgarian boarder toward the end of the Warsaw Pact days. Function and appearence is exceptional even for Western firearms. I am talking Ruger, Sneak + Wessel, C*lt, and Taurus in comparison.

Subject: (OT)Argintine 1911 C&R From: Rev Rob To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 23:13:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Colt -- 1911 Argentine Contract 45 Colt does anyone know if this would be a C&R? Rev Rob

Subject: Re: (OT)Argintine 1911 C&R From: Tyler To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 13:48:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The following is a direct quote from the Curios and Relics list showing which guns are C&Rs. 'The Argentine (D.G.F.M.) System Colt model 1927 pistols 'Ejericito Argentino' bearing S/Ns less than 24501' These pistols were made under contract from Colt on Colt machines and all parts are interchangeable.

Subject: Re: (OT)Argintine 1911 C&R From: Fyodr To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:23:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: C&R unknown but are you aware the Ballista-Molina is internally different to Colt 1911? Much simpler. Only barrel and mags interchangeable.Brits took some in WW2 via Lend-Lease agreement with US.

Subject: Tyler From: fyodr To: Fyodr Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 00:20:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Quite so. The Argies I know of here as collectibles were made to Argie military specs in the 1930s. My advice referred to this model, not those made to 1911/1911A1 specs.

Subject: Holster From: CC Coleman To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 22:25:07 (EST) Email Address: exexpat93@aol.com Message: I just got my carry holster for my mak. It is a second from some maker (Bianchi or Galco) under the Guide Gear name from SportsmansGuide.com; they called it the Desk Rider made for sitting at a desk or driving. It was intended for the .45acp Colt but fits my Mak to a 'T' (albeit alittle tight in the backstrap). I choose it as the angle is very extreme, almost horizontal, over many others. It is very comfortable to wear, well made, inexpensive, and it is a keeper. 2 extra mags and a mag holder to go to complete my carry package.

Subject: Re: Holster From: Rev Rob To: CC Coleman Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 23:14:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hay thats kinda what i have been looking for. I wonder if my Tanfoghlio Witness would fit in it? Rev Rob

Subject: Re: Holster From: CC Coleman To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 06:16:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If it has a round trigger guard vise the squarish type and is as narrow as a Makarov or .45acp Colt type it will do the trick. Desk Rider holster @ sportsmansguide.com.

Subject: OT: Happy 90th President Reagan! From: SlimTim To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 20:04:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: President Ronald Wilson Reagan, When I think of the 'Good Ole Days', I think of 1980 to 1988. Your leadership of our nation during this period is greatly appreciated and will always be remembered with gratitude, no matter what revisionist historians may write. God Bless You! ST

Subject: Re: I agree! Hear, hear! From: Greg S. To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 04:11:58 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: May he rest comfortably. May GW shape up and follow in his footsteps! Greg S.

Subject: Here, Here!!! From: McPhil To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:18:11 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Thank you sir for your leadership and wisdom. You will be remembered as a great patriot. Thanks, McPhil

Subject: Re: OT: Happy 90th President Reagan! From: CC Coleman To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:11:30 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Amen. Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and Reagan were the best the century had to offer. FDR only because he tackled two problems during his period. Happy Birthday President Reagan God be with you.

Subject: Happy 90th President Reagan! From: Dean To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:04:18 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: I'll join you on that SlimTim. In my opinion, he saved this country from double-digit inflation and interest rates, then restored the military. Who knows what would have happened without him? Hope he's resting comfortably on his 90th birthday. Happy birthday, Gipper!

Subject: Re: Happy 90th President Reagan! From: Guard88 To: Dean Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 12:03:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I agree. Reagan is a real Hero , he was shot by an exploding bullet , yet walked up the steps to the hospital, and this in his sixties! Truly a Great Man. Whats more he knew gun control would not have helped and didn't bring in more laws.

Subject: FEG Model P9R Cal 9mm Pistol From: Larrie To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 18:04:43 (EST) Email Address: larriec@hotmail.com Message: Sorry this is a little off subject, but can someone tell me a little about the FEG Model P9R Cal 9mm Pistol? I've seen several new ones on the GUNBROKER.COM auction site. Are they any good? Are they worth the $200.00 they seem to bring? TIA

Subject: Re: FEG Model P9R Cal 9mm Pistol From: lugermike To: Larrie Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 10:39:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Here's a review of the compact version of the FEG P9R: http://www.cruffler.com/review-april-00.html Not the same pistol but many general observations should also be true for its fullsize cousin too.....

Subject: Re: FEG Model P9R Cal 9mm Pistol From: Kyrie To: Larrie Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 18:43:41 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: Sorry this is a little off subject, but can someone tell me a little about the FEG Model P9R Cal 9mm Pistol? I've seen several new ones on the GUNBROKER.COM auction site. Are they any good? Are they worth the $200.00 they seem to bring? TIA --- Nice pistols. Fifteen round magazine, hammer drop safety, the most recent ones even have a passive firing pin block. FEG does some nice work. Hope this helps! Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: James To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 17:12:04 (EST) Email Address: pj122@hotmail.com Message: I'm a little confused here. Someone is selling 'new' military surplus Bulgarian Maks. I called and they said they have the circle with the 10 inside, and also in CAI importatin marks.. Is this a real military surplus, or a commercial model? How do I know the difference, if there is one, and which is best among the Bulgarians? I understand all Bulgie Maks are made by Arsenal, but were all 'military'? Any help appreciated. Thx. P.S. these come with the black plastic grips, with thumbrest.

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: arcom To: James Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 17:36:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Arsenal factory made both the commercial and military Bulgarian Maks. The pistols with the circled 10 are the military models and originally came with a reddish plum colored grip with a star in the center, same as the Russian military Maks. The thumbrest grips were added as an import requirement. You should try to get a pistol with BOTH grips as that's how they came in--also, they came with an extra mag and a decent milsurp flap holster. An added benny (from a collector's viewpoint) is if the mag numbers match the pistol Some importers/distributors sell the original grip, extra mag and holster seperately to increase the profit margin by about $20-$30 as that's what the removed parts will sell for. HTH

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: James To: arcom Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 17:47:57 (EST) Email Address: pj122@hotmail.com Message: The Arsenal factory made both the commercial and military Bulgarian Maks. The pistols with the circled 10 are the military models and originally came with a reddish plum colored grip with a star in the center, same as the Russian military Maks. The thumbrest grips were added as an import requirement. You should try to get a pistol with BOTH grips as that's how they came in--also, they came with an extra mag and a decent milsurp flap holster. An added benny (from a collector's viewpoint) is if the mag numbers match the pistol Some importers/distributors sell the original grip, extra mag and holster seperately to increase the profit margin by about $20-$30 as that's what the removed parts will sell for. HTH --- So I should rest assured that if it has the circle-10 it is a 'surplus' military model? By the way, what markings would a commercial Arsenal have? The price I found for these is $99.95 I assume this is a good deal? It only brings on mag (unknown whether it is matching), and no holster, although I can get a surplus leather for $6 bucks separately, and the original grips for $5. Many thanks, James

Subject: $99 DOOOW From: Rev Rob To: James Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 22:02:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: $99 is real good. I have been eyeing one just like that in a local shop and he wants $169 for it. Rev Rob

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: Pussball To: James Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 18:18:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: James: Rest assured, if the gun has the circle-10 marking, it is definitely a surplus military/police pistol. The commercial guns have 'Arsenal' stamped on the right side of the slide and 'MAKAROV CAL. 9X18' and 'MADE IN BULGARIA' stamped on the left side of the slide.

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: Greg S. To: Pussball Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:37:13 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: 'Arsenal' also appears on the left side of the slide. Greg S.

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: Pussball To: Greg S. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 20:39:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That's right, on some but not all!

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: James To: Pussball Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 09:45:22 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What a beauty...do all commercial Bulgies have the same type trigger guard?

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: James To: Pussball Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 18:38:34 (EST) Email Address: pj122@hotmail.com Message: Thanks for the info.

Subject: Re: Need help on Bulgarian Maks From: CW To: James Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:53:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My commercial Bulgarian has the circle 10 marking too! The surplus Bulg. Maks I've seen have just the serial number, import marks and circle 10. Also the finish seems to be a little more glossy than mine. -Chris

Subject: Circle 10 on commercial too! From: SlimTim To: CW Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:55:50 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Chris is absolutely correct, the double circle 10 also appears on Arsenal branded commercial maks. The presence of the double circle 10 is NOT proof positive the gun is military issue. This was discussed a few months back, and I seem to recall that not all commercial Arsenal branded maks had the circle 10, but the newest ones on the market did. This could be a case of cannibalizing old military frames. However, the serial numbers indicated current production, so I doubt that's the case. SlimTim

Subject: Update... From: James To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 13:39:04 (EST) Email Address: pj122@hotmail.com Message: I called the seller and I was told that the right side of the frame simply has 'Bulgaria' on it (not 'made in Bulgaria'), and the importation mark, CAI. He says there's no 'Arsenal' anywhere. And yes,it has the circle-10. Would you say it's a surplus gun or commercial?

Subject: Re: Circle 10 on commercial too! From: James To: SlimTim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:10:13 (EST) Email Address: pj122@hotmail.com Message: Is there a serial number range that would help me differentiate between commercial or military gun? Is there anything that would absolutely identify the gun as a commercial, then? Thx.

Subject: Happy Face by .380 SXT From: arcom To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 17:06:30 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1413774&a=10573757&p=40260050 Droopy mouth due to stroke damage. Winchester .360 SXTs from Makarov hicap .380

Subject: Re: Happy Face by .380 SXT From: McPhil To: arcom Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:24:54 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Outstanding dude!!! Give me some pointers!! McPhil

Subject: Is that a cigarette? From: Rev Rob To: arcom Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:56:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Winchester 9 X 18 From: landisbear To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 16:03:08 (EST) Email Address: landisbear@hotmail.com Message: SANDSTONE FUR CO.--been listing Winchester 9x18 in their Shotgun news ad for past few months... I called they said Winchester rep estimates two to four months////// I guess we will have to wait four to six months more........

Subject: Winchester 9 X 18 From: landisbear To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 15:58:14 (EST) Email Address: landisbear@hotmail.com Message:

Subject: bulgie mak ID From: jonjay To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 15:57:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have a bulgarian circle 10 marked and after the serial numbers there seems to be a scrubbed 42 in a circle or possible in parenthesis? it also looks like a diamond in front of the scrubbed mark. anyone know what these symbols may be?? Thanks

Subject: Re: bulgie mak ID From: SlimTim To: jonjay Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 19:58:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Johnjay, This marking is after the serial # ? Are there 2 cyrillic letters for the first two digits in the serial #? Sounds strange, any chance you could post a pic? ST

Subject: what it HAS From: jonjay To: SlimTim Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 13:31:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It has the circle 10 then a backwards N then H 18 XXX the what looks like a diamond facing upwards then (42) then . what looks like a peen mark, like on the top of the CZ-52's 10 NH 18xxx 437^(42)

Subject: Jonjay's discover--ATTENTION PLEASE! From: SlimTim To: jonjay Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 22:47:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: This is an odd one. Seems like too many numbers. My military Bulgaring mak is (letter letter) 19 xxx. Both the slide and the frame are numbered, do both have all these markings? I do see what seems like a small diamond on the frame after the serial number on mine, and hey! I just got out a lighted magnifying glass--the eyes aren't what they used to be. Mines got the diamond and (42 but that's all I can make out. Anything else is stamped so lightly it's not visable. The diamond and the (42 are stamped VERY lightly. Jonjay, if this has been discussed before, I've totally missed it. Nice catch. OK folks, get out the Bulgies and look at the serial # on the frame, then report what you find! Use a magnifying glass!! ST

Subject: imported by From: jonjay To: jonjay Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 13:32:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: PW ARMS REDMOND WA

Subject: E. German Mak Doing Strange Things!! From: Nazman To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 15:53:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Guys, I need your help. My E. German Mak has been doing the weak safety spring thing ever since I bought it last summer (I seemed to have fixed that problem by stressing the srping a little with a dental pick). This afternoon I was at the riange and something new cropped up. I fired approximately 100 rounds during the session. Four different times, after firing a round, the hammer would drop and the next shot would be double action. Otherwise, the pistol function well. Does anyone have an idea as to what's causing this? This was the first time I've ever seen something like this happen. Thanks for your help, Nazman

Subject: Re: E. German Mak Doing Strange Things!! From: PM To: Nazman Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 19:17:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My circle 10 did this whenever I'd let the slide slam closed on an empty chamber. It never actually did it while firing, or feeding a round. I replaced parts, one by one, from another Bulgie, and seemed to have corrected the problem by replacing the sear, and disconnector/transfer bar. Ordered new ones from Karl, and it hasn't done it, since. I don't know, for sure, if they'll make a difference on yours, but, if you've got another Mak handy, you can just start swapping out parts.

Subject: Re: E. German Mak Doing Strange Things!! From: ? To: PM Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 22:59:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Most likely the spring assembly under the grip is weak.

Subject: Russian Double stacked From: McPhil To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 15:17:57 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Did I see where one of you guys has a Russian double stacked for sale??? If so, please e-mail me off list. Thanks, McPhil

Subject: CO2 Mak question... From: pa To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 11:24:28 (EST) Email Address: payeager1@home.com Message: A week or so ago, I ended up with 2 MP-654K CO2 Maks (both NIB?). Today, I decided to try the other one out to make sure that it functioned the way it is supposed to as I am going to post it for sale later this week. On the barrel end of one of these pistols, it is painted orange. The other pistol does not have the orange paint...just blued. Is this an earlier/later version? They are identical except for the paint. The pistol with the paint was from an auction while the other was from a dealer at a show. No big deal, but I was just wondering if maybe the paint was removed as this would change the asking price in my book, depending on which is correct.

Subject: A cautious importer From: zbillster To: pa Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 00:05:12 (EST) Email Address: zbillster@hotmail.com Message: Having dabbled in the airsoft hobby, U.S. Customs started mandating that all airsoft, toy and replica firearms have orange paint for a certain number of centimeters from the muzzle back. It's been applying to video game lightguns as well. Either they started extending it to imported airguns, or the importer was just being cautious to avoid confiscation and did it himself. I would take it off.

Subject: Re: A cautious importer From: pa To: zbillster Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:19:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Having dabbled in the airsoft hobby, U.S. Customs started mandating that all airsoft, toy and replica firearms have orange paint for a certain number of centimeters from the muzzle back. It's been applying to video game lightguns as well. Either they started extending it to imported airguns, or the importer was just being cautious to avoid confiscation and did it himself. I would take it off. --- That's what I was wondering about also. I'm going to keep the orange painted one as I have already shot over 300 (full pack) BB's out of it. It is kind of fun and helps with the practice...which I can always use more of. ;^) The other one has only had 5 shots out of it so that I could make sure that it worked OK before posting it for sale.

Subject: Re: CO2 Mak question... From: Marko To: pa Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:24:23 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey pa: The one's I've seen did not have the orange paint. I'm betting it was added post-sale, in order to distinguish it from an actual cartidge-fired pistol. Is this the one you won in a raffle? If so, perhaps the group that did the raffle added it? Let us know if you get a definitive answer. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: CO2 Mak question... From: pa To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:13:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey pa: The one's I've seen did not have the orange paint. I'm betting it was added post-sale, in order to distinguish it from an actual cartidge-fired pistol. Is this the one you won in a raffle? If so, perhaps the group that did the raffle added it? Let us know if you get a definitive answer. Take care. Marko --- It just made me wonder. The picture of this pistol on the Makarov.com accessories site has the orange paint on the end of the barrel. This is the way the pistol looks that I got on an auction. But I have heard from other people that the ends of their barrels are blued like the one that I got from a dealer at a show. Thought maybe one was imported earlier than the other. Oh well, I'll just post the blued one for sale for $90.00 shipped. Should be a good deal...

Subject: Firing Demonstrations of the Makarov From: Chris To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 10:59:23 (EST) Email Address: MLStriker@aol.com Message: Hello-- My name is Chris and I'm on the staff of a game, a Half Life modification first person shooter. It will be called 'Red Winter', a ficticious war between Russian and the United States using modern firearms. The accessibility of American firearms is easy since they are used in many other games and movies. However, the Russian guns are different. The Makarov is the official sidearm of the Russians, is it not? I would appreciate if anyone has or knows where to find an mpeg or video file of a Makarov shooting. Also, any galleries with the Makarov (Russian) would be appreciated. It is very hard to make accurate in-game portrayals of firearms, including the sounds, kickback, and loading. Other Half Life shooters such as 'Counterstrike' have magnificently portrayed the above factors in such weapons as the M4A1 carbine, the Ingram Mac 10, and three Steyr weapons. I would prefer a reply sent in E-Mail (MLStriker@aol.com) because I'm a little absentminded and might not revisit this board. =) Thanks! -Chris

Subject: Re: Firing Demonstrations of the Makarov From: CC Coleman To: Chris Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 20:55:54 (EST) Email Address: exexpat93@aol.com Message: While I do not know of many computer video clips that have the Makarov in action there are many movies that do. If you have the equipment to transfer from VHS to computer format I would use clips and scenes from these movies that do not show the actors faces, off and back shots. One movie that comes to mind that uses the Makarov quite abit and has the actors in Soviet garb is 'The Fourth Protocol'. Still pictures of just the gun itself refer to makarov.com. There are quite afew variants shown there; long slides, silenced versions, different East Block Grips and holster used by the Warsaw Pact. The Makarov wasn't just used by the USSR; East Germany, Bulgaria, and sometimes Romania and Poland although they had their own guns too.

Subject: Arsenal Mak From: jlflegal To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:15:48 (EST) Email Address: jlflegal@am.pnu.com Message: My son in law asked me about the availability of a new Arsenal Makarov. I've checked several places and could not find one and have noticed the gun shows never have any. Have they dried up? Could anyone advise me where we may find one?

Subject: Re: Arsenal Mak From: CC Coleman To: jlflegal Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:01:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Lack of sellers that know of guns reliability and too many buyers that do know of guns reliability. www.gunsamerica.com www.gunbroker.com www.gunauctions.com j+s sales and lots of other c+r exclusive sites century arms empire arms got the Bulgarian.

Subject: Re: Arsenal Mak From: MAB To: jlflegal Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 11:14:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It is my understanding that all the Bulgarian Maks were (are) made by Arsenal.

Subject: Re: Arsenal Mak From: CW To: MAB Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:15:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: All Bulgarian Maks were made by Arsenal, but not all Arsenal Maks are military Maks. The first Bulgarian Maks imported were commercial manufacture, and are labeled 'Arsenal' on the side. These are new, never previously used. The second ones brought in were Miltex Maks made in Bulgaria and again, commercialy new pistols. Lately, what are coming in are Bulgarian surplus (and I assume ex-police issue). I haven't seen Arsenal (commercial) Maks for sale for over a year now, and doubt that they are still being made or imported. -Chris

Subject: Re: Arsenal Mak From: PM To: MAB Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 19:23:09 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I havn't seen a commercial Bulgie (Arsenal) for sale, in the last year, except for an occasional Miltex SE. You may come across a used one at auction, or at a gunshow, but nobody's bringing them in, right now. I'm not even sure Arsenal's still making them.

Subject: 9mm Cases From: Greg S. To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 04:30:46 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: All dimensions are in millimeters!! of course :D Greg S.

Subject: Re: 9mm Cases From: Dean To: Greg S. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 08:30:03 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: Thanks, Greg. Good info and it agrees with other descriptions I've found. I'm still a little confused about which round is correct for the PP Super. I've seen both the Super and Ultra described as the Police round. There does seem to be a difference between the Police and Ultra in that the Police case is 18mm long and the Ultra is 18.5mm, the case openings are different, and the base diameter and extracter base are just a little different. Both use 9mm (.355) bullets. Do you think these are close enough to be interchangeable? The only commercial ammo I've found is Fiocchi 9x18 Ultra. The Old Western Scrounger lists it at $24.11 for a 50 round box and Cheaper Than Dirt shows it for $16.42 (of course they're out). I doubt that I'll do much plinking with this thing unless I can find re-loads. Apparently, the PP Super was developed in West Germany in 1973 to satisfy police demands for something in between the .32 ACP and 9mm Luger. East Germany already had the 9x18 Makarov! Go figure.

Subject: Re: 9mm Cases From: Greg S. To: Dean Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:19:51 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: How does the caliber info on your pistol actually read? The 9mm Super is 9x23mm! An obsolete Browning round. 1902 or something like that. The 9x18mm Police was developed in 1976 for the West German Police. The 9x18 Ultra is from 1936. The 9x18mm Super business I think is a misnomer going around. Mayhap someone can check it out. Greg S.

Subject: 9mm Case dimensions From: Greg S. To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 04:10:11 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: I'll try this out. Couldn't get it before. About the cases: I believe 9x20 is 9mm Super. albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1512134&a=11423363&p=40219011

Subject: Re: &@!#!$& Photopoint! From: Greg S. To: Greg S. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 04:19:48 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Photopoint is such a hassle to use! I'll wait and put it on my website then load the image directly using 'img src' html code. Much simpler IMHO. ~:( Greg S.

Subject: Sight Problem, HELP! From: Dan To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 00:29:01 (EST) Email Address: drh67201@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu Message: My Greman Mak shoots too high. What a tragedy! My math tells me I need to either raise the front or lower the rear around a sixteenth of an inch; which is quite a bit considering how small the rear sight is already. I don't know anyone that's ever filed sights and I'm a little nervous. My sights are origional and are untampered with except for a little windage adjustment. What you y'all think I should do: File the rear, or raise the front somehow. Any suggestions appretiated; all except buying a new slide, because I'm in college and poor. Thanks in advance. -Dan the Man

Subject: Re: Sight Problem, HELP! From: arcom To: Dan Date Posted: Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 00:30:09 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My feeling is that changing your sight alignment is not a good way to go. For one thing, it's too imprecise and for another it's just a bad habit to develop. My Maks shoot high at 25 yds (6'') except with the ammo that comes in those cute little 16 round boxes--which just happens to be factory ammo. These are military pistols designed for shooting with a 6 o'clock hold, not a bullseye hold. IMHO, it's better to throw in some Kentucky windage and aim a little low. I think you'll find if you aim at the bottom of a standard 25 yd NRA pistol target, your shots will all be in the black and a little above center. Changing out the rear sight for a shorter one is one way to go, but $14 is a lot of money for that little piece of steel. A decent set of needle files and some cold blue will do the trick as well and if you shoot indoors (better weather), you can check your work as you go. HTH

Subject: Re: Sight Problem, HELP! From: Tyler To: Dan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 22:17:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have the same problem. I have to aim about 4 inches low at fifteen yards. I decided to file the rear sight, but I was not going to do it on my only sight. Karl has replacement rear sights for fourteen dollars. I bought an armorer's kit from Century which had several in it plus just about every part that you would ever need on a Makarov.

Subject: Re: Sight Problem, HELP! From: Dan To: Dan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 19:06:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Tell you the truth I havn't tried different ammo. But the aim is so consistent. I'm a pretty darn good shot with my Mak, I just have to aim under the target. True some of the problem could be me, but definitely not all of the problem. I hold the pistol standing about 45 degrees to the target with my hands just like every other shooter I know. I'll try just lowering the front sight halfway down my sight picture and see if I can shot straight like that. If no, I suppose I'll break out the file. Wish me luck. Thanks

Subject: Re: Sight Problem, HELP! From: Don To: Dan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 08:22:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My Bulgerian shoots high as well. If I keep the front sight only about half-way up the rear sight, it shoots right on. I've also been considering filing the rear sight down slightly to avoid having to change the sight picture. I'd go a little bit at a time; better to do it twice than overdo it the first time. I'm also thinking about removing the front sight completely and making a Meprolight Night Sight fit; it would be a little higher and much more visible than the somewhat crappy original front sight. It would require drilling a hole in the frame, filing the hole to an oval, and finding/making an attaching screw.

Subject: Re: How high is to high? From: Greg S. To: Dan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 03:01:13 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Are you using a rest? Six o'clock hold? More info is needed. What is the effect of different ammo? Greg S.

Subject: Additions to Greg's Questions . . . From: BRS To: Greg S. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 17:00:20 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's the range that you are shooting? What grip do you have on the pistol, and how do hold it in your hand? No offense, if you dry fire it and watch the sights, which way do they go when you flinch? BRS

Subject: cz-52 mag floor plate From: caliban To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 23:27:27 (EST) Email Address: jotis2@purdue.edu Message: Ok, a few months ago I picked up a cz-52. Took it to the range, I love it, except for one small problem: When loading one of the mags, the floorplate popped off, dumping the springs and all the rounds on the floor. Shot with just the remaining magazine. Once I got home, I tried to fix the busted mag floor plate. Not being particularly mechanically inclined, I think I messed the thing up more than fixed it. As such, what would it cost to get a new mag floorplate? Thanks for your help.

Subject: Re: cz-52 mag floor plate From: Guard88 To: caliban Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:17:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ok, a few months ago I picked up a cz-52. Took it to the range, I love it, except for one small problem: When loading one of the mags, the floorplate popped off, dumping the springs and all the rounds on the floor. Shot with just the remaining magazine. Once I got home, I tried to fix the busted mag floor plate. Not being particularly mechanically inclined, I think I messed the thing up more than fixed it. As such, what would it cost to get a new mag floorplate? Thanks for your help. --- You are probably better off just buying a new mag. AIM has them for $19.95 new. Spare CZ52 mags are hard to find so the parts are going to be rarer and expensive.

Subject: DANS From: TENNESSEEAN To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 22:29:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I may have been asleep for the last few days cause this one has slipped by me. Dans new website. DANS www.dansammo.com

Subject: Re: DANS From: AZGunslinger To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 14:01:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What is the webb site URL???

Subject: http://www.dansammo.com/ From: McPhil To: AZGunslinger Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 15:20:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: ntxt

Subject: Nice Site! From: Rev Rob To: McPhil Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 16:09:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks for the link. Looks real nice! Rev Rob

Subject: Re: DANS From: McPhil To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 01:04:22 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Site looks good too!!! McPhil

Subject: Tokarov From: CC Coleman To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 20:21:03 (EST) Email Address: exexpat93@aol.com Message: We always hear about the Makarov and CZ52 guns but there doesn't seem to much discussion of the Tokarov. I read about them in the same spy novels as the Makarov back when neither were available for sale (outside of the WarVetSet). The Chinese ones that made it in appear to come in both 9mm and the CZ caliber. I recently saw some Romanian and Polish ones enter the country (forgot what link) in original CZ type caliber. Are these pistols trash (many seem to put down the Chinese ones)? I've seen the Tok described as 'a half assed attempt to copy our .45acp design'; not my words. I have seen also somewhere that they made a high capacity variant other than the 8 shot standard. So as availablity increases we are bound to hear more about them here. Having a Makarova return to the house recently might turn me into a collector of obscure East Block militia as well as a shooter.

Subject: Re: Tokarov From: Kyrie To: CC Coleman Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 18:31:43 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: I may be about to stir up a hornet's nest :-) The TT-33 Tokarev pistol is (IMO) a more robust pistol than the Ceska Zbrojovka produced CZ 52. Certainly it has less of a problematical history than the CZ 52. It's also a less complicated pistol than the CZ 52. I prefer the TT-33 to the CZ 52, even though I have more CZ 52's than I do TT-33's :-) Just my $0.02 worth, offered entirely FWIW. Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: Tokarev, CZ-52, etc. From: WMFlash To: Kyrie Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:41:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The CZ-52 had an excellent service record! Aside from a brittle firing pin (easily fixed). I have nothing against the TT-33, but I don't really like having only a half cocked position and the safeties added on for US import models seem a bit tacked on. A few people have said the CZ was over complicated (author Ian Hogg comes to mind). He questions if Czech 7.62x25mm actually reaches 1600 fps. The authors of the American Rifleman article in May 1990 tested M48 ammunition of 'contemporay vintage' and I believe they got numbers in the 1400's (the article isn't in front of me). My point, has anyone actually seen any Czech ammo that was that hot (1600 fps or more)? I'm going to chronograph some from my crate in a couple of weeks and see what happens, but I'm thinking it will come in around 1450 fps. I don't buy the fact that the other, hotter loads were removed for being armor piercing as some have suggested. After all, the Czech Ammo I have has a lot of steel in it, easy to see with a regular household magnetic. I'm not sure if the CZ-52 was actually designed to fire hotter loads or if it is just capable of firing hotter loads. If the former is correct, then you're right, it's a lot more complicated then it has to be.

Subject: Re: Tokarov From: WMFlash To: Kyrie Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:40:55 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The CZ-52 had an excellent service record! Aside from a brittle firing pin (easily fixed). I have nothing against the TT-33, but I don't really like having only a half cocked position and the safeties added on for US import models seem a bit tacked on. A few people have said the CZ was over complicated (author Ian Hogg comes to mind). He questions if Czech 7.62x25mm actually reaches 1600 fps. The authors of the American Rifleman article in May 1990 tested M48 ammunition of 'contemporay vintage' and I believe they got numbers in the 1400's (the article isn't in front of me). My point, has anyone actually seen any Czech ammo that was that hot (1600 fps or more)? I'm going to chronograph some from my crate in a couple of weeks and see what happens, but I'm thinking it will come in around 1450 fps. I don't buy the fact that the other, hotter loads were removed for being armor piercing as some have suggested. After all, the Czech Ammo I have has a lot of steel in it, easy to see with a regular household magnetic. I'm not sure if the CZ-52 was actually designed to fire hotter loads or if it is just capable of firing hotter loads. If the former is correct, then you're right, it's a lot more complicated then it has to be.

Subject: Sorry, about the double post From: WMFlash To: WMFlash Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:42:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Tokarov From: RucSac To: CC Coleman Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 17:15:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: oneshot said it all. I have a Chinese Tok, definately did not come from any custom shop, but it is a military pistol. Mine has a fairly nice trigger and yes it does have sights, if you look hard enough. It has given no problems, has ate everything I've fed it including that New Generation junk. A fun pistol to own and shoot JUST NOT SUB GUN AMMO. Is it a CZ-52 - no, but still fun.

Subject: Re: Tokarov From: Brian To: CC Coleman Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 13:35:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I saw one recently in 7.62x25 made by Norinco. It was nothing to put in the display case for sure! The trigger pull was gritty and the sights weren't what I would call desirable, but for the $190 price tag it was pretty much what I expected. If you're looking for a 7.62x25 collection it's prolly worth getting. If you want a shooter, the CZ 52 is a lot more gun for the money.

Subject: Re: Tokarov From: cc To: CC Coleman Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 20:40:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sorry, CZ52 is the rifle/CZ50 is the pistol and I can never remember either's caliber. Put an 'x' in the cailber and I lose track; 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x25, etc., etc.

Subject: Re: Tokarov From: Markus To: cc Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 22:30:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Cz52 is a pistol(7.62x25) The rifle is designated Vz52. I've heard that the Tok is a quality gun but you can't shoot the hot stuff like you can with the Cz52. check users.supernet.com/roo67/ for more info on the Tokorev.

Subject: Re: Tokarov From: OneShot To: Markus Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 13:58:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Cz52 is a pistol(7.62x25) The rifle is designated Vz52. I've heard that the Tok is a quality gun but you can't shoot the hot stuff like you can with the Cz52. check users.supernet.com/roo67/ for more info on the Tokorev. --- The Tokarev you are referring to is technically call the model TT33. I have a couple Russians..and a new Polish on the way. I am very fond of the Toks. To give you a little data..up until this point the only TT33s inthe country were Chinese (9mm and 7.62x25). These while mechanically sound do occasionally suffer from misfeeds due largly to the fact that not all the components were made inthe same plant, but separate factories then asembled. The Soviet made TT33s were made and hand fitted a la the 1895 Nagant revolver, s they have the advantage of a good throat job and better fit. It is well accepted that Tokarev borrowed heavily from Brownings 1911 design. He did however make a few design changes..mostly for a very Russian reason..practicality and effiency. First, the round fired would be 7.62 caliber, thus keeping the universal 30 caliber between rifle and pistol (helps making barrels) Plsu the Soviets liked a similar Mauser round. Alsi the locking lugs on the barrel were turned on a lathe all the way around the barrel rathe than just on top. This saved a lolt of time milling the lugs out. Most importantly though the hammer/sear spring was completely redesigned to be able to removed en-suite. This makes cleaning MUCH easier. As far as the round goes..its a 'you win and you loose' deal. The smallish calliber lacks the sledgehammer knock-your-ass back 10' thump of the .45. However, its evergy and hyper velocity has gained a reputation as a 'Penetrator'. Many a vet has heard the horror stories of them penetrating flak and even 'bullet proof' vests. It is true that the link and pin action of the TT33 can not handle the same amount of power the CZ-52. Shooting unknow surplus is a bad idea. A 'hot' submachine gun round that would test the limits of the CZ would blow the slide clean off the Tok. However, I regularly shoot factor S&B ammo in my Russians as well as some hand loadswith no problems. If if you consider being limited to the 1400 fps range not hot enough (kinda like hot sauce) save the psycho loads for a CZ52! All in all I like the TT33 a lot, it's flat and handy and a fun pistol in it's own right.

Subject: Italy made HSc??? From: Isaac To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 19:51:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Does anyone have any information on an Italy made Mauser HSc? I saw one in .380 at a pawn shop today w/ a 13 rnd mag and no the rear sight for $240! Overall the gun was in excellent shape, but I know nothing about these guns... Good...bad...ugly...what? Tell me about it. TIA Isaac

Subject: Re: Italy made HSc??? From: Kyrie To: Isaac Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 18:41:04 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: Does anyone have any information on an Italy made Mauser HSc? I saw one in .380 at a pawn shop today w/ a 13 rnd mag and no the rear sight for $240! Overall the gun was in excellent shape, but I know nothing about these guns... Good...bad...ugly...what? Tell me about it. TIA Isaac --- Hi Issac, The last Mauser HSc pistol produced were produced under license by Gamba of Italy. These are the 'HSc Super'; high capacity magazine, automatic slide release deleted, front trigger guard shaped a bit differently than the Mauser produced HSc pistols. Gamba is better known for their very high quality (and very expensive) shotguns. They did equally good work on their HSc pistols. The Gamba HSc is out of production, and Navy Arms acquired a large number of these pistols (NIB) a few years ago. They couldn't sell them all, and dumped them on SOG. Last price on them was $170. $240 for a used one with a missing rear sight is not a good deal :-) Regarding using the Beretta magazine, I've never tried. I'm inclined to doubt it's possible, but who know? Hope this helps! Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: Re: Italy made HSc??? From: ? To: Isaac Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 23:01:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Should be a well made gun.Talked to the owner of the company a while ago.He was quite proud of their workmanship.They were also expensive.

Subject: Re: Italy made HSc??? From: Issac To: ? Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 13:25:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Expensive...? What are we talking here? Do you think $200 would be a reasonable price for one of these? Also, I was looking at the mag: it looks like it take the Beretta 84 hicaps instead of the regular HSc mags. Do you know anything about that? Thanks for the info~Issac

Subject: Re: Italy made HSc??? From: ? To: Issac Date Posted: Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 08:39:15 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: True Confessions (of the .380 kind) From: SlimTim To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 19:29:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I gotta confess, I bought a .380 Mak Saturday. But I got a great excuse! It was a Norinco, and priced ok. So it doesn't count against me, right? I mean, there aren't alot of .380 Norinco Type 59s so, I was obligated to buy it, correct?? It's certainly not a collector's piece, as it has a well worn EG black grip on it, but otherwise it appears almost new. It's previous owner must have either taken very good care of it, or not shot it much--(if the later, why'd he change the grip?) I got it for an OK price, not one where you'd think I stole it, but pretty good, considering it's not that common a find. I feel better now that this is in the open. I did buy that Russian .380 on auction, but that didn't count 'cause I immediately sold it. I don't have plans for more .380s, so I can still be a charter member of the 9x18 RuLeZ club, can't I?? -- ST

Subject: Re: True Confessions (of the .380 kind) From: GI To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 21:40:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I guess I better come out of the closet too. I picked up a Arsenal Special Edition Miltex Waldorf,MD, .380. Almost too perty to shoot. Found it in a pawn shop, looks like new with box papers decent holster and extra mag. Paid too much at $185, but I was in a weakened state. I was in love! Or maybe it was lust.

Subject: My first mak was a .380! From: Pilot To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 08:25:40 (EST) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: No worries Slim Tim. My first Mak was a Satin, Russian, commercial varinet in .380 They only imported the Russian Satins (B-West) in .380. Way back in '94, when I bought it, 9x18 wasn't available as much, so .380 was a good alternative. My four other Maks are 9x18 however. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Chinese in .380! Pilot Pilot

Subject: Just 1 more die set to buy! From: PM To: SlimTim Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 00:12:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Seriously, if I had an opportunity to get a nice Mak in 380, and the price was right, I'd get it. I've got a spare 9x18 barrel waiting just for that reason!

Subject: Hay }:( From: Rev Rob To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 22:48:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My Natasha is a 380, whats wrong with 380s?

Subject: Rev Rob From: Markus To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 23:30:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Rev Rob! It depends. Is she a Russian swallow or a Bulgarian swallow? But seriously, 380's are fine, its just some of us are Purist.

Subject: Yes Brother :) From: Rev Rob To: Markus Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 07:47:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I blow my nose in thier general direction(With a puffy French snarl) Viv La 380!!! Conjegate the Verb '9us by 18erus go homeus'.

Subject: Grammer lessons from RevRob From: SlimTim To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 19:26:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I blow my nose in thier general direction(With a puffy French snarl) Viv La 380!!! Conjegate the Verb '9us by 18erus go homeus'. --- Rev Rob, I hope you will take this in the humorous spirit in which I intend: I wouldn't take grammar lessons from you in a million years! :-) Really, I realize some folks are spelling/grammar bigots and vent when folks don't write correctly, but I know a few computer geeks who can't write a complete sentance that make over $100k a year, so believe me, they have my respect! ST

Subject: Well shut my mouth! From: Bubba Markus To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 22:45:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Fess up SlimTim. You done gone plum crazy! The next you gonna be hollerin is 'Roll Tide' and 'Go Gators'

Subject: Go Gators!! nt From: mike h To: Bubba Markus Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 13:50:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Well shut my mouth! From: ScoutnStAugustine To: Bubba Markus Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 23:11:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Something wrong with 'Go Gators?' Hey, they gave me a free college education...but seriously, if you EVER want to sell a Russian .380...LEMME KNOW ! I'm getting fond of these things, and for what it's worth, as of earlier today I've shot approx. 2000 rounds through my Imez, without a single jam or misfeed. Same goes for a 9x18 I have. And these things with the adjustable sights can be tuned in like a champion! ... (Just my $.02 worth)

Subject: Re: Well shut my mouth! From: Markus To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 23:50:25 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We won't hold it against you. Why I bled Crimsom red until 1990.(didn't like the way Bill Curry got treated,plus I'm a University of South Alabama grad and they would never play us in Basketball. Or was it that crazy wife of mine with her Go Vols nightie?

Subject: Re: Well shut my mouth! From: TENNESSEEAN To: Bubba Markus Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 22:53:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You know come to think of that ole boy has been puny latley, he's been spending time up in the big city, tried to buy a pimp gun a couple of weeks ago, If he goes to hollering that he's had a bad fever. Sounds serious to me. TN

Subject: Some said he's lost weight... From: McPhil To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 01:09:54 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: ...shaved his beard and EVEN took a bath before saturday:) Must be this revenuer business he's now in ta now!!! McPhil

Subject: Re: True Confessions (of the .380 kind) From: arcom To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 20:16:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My 380 (hi cap) has become a test bed. Currently, I'm trying to get a LaserLyte laser to mount on the trigger guard AND STAY PUT. Additionally, I've twice stripped the adjustment screw on it and had to return the unit for replacement --- matters not that I disregarded the instructions and turned it too much, they replaced it anyway. It would work for about 5 shots--dead on at 30 feet--then slide up. Directions say to put super glue on the plastic inserts, not for adhesion but for friction to hold the mount. Another point I disregarded. The 380 has just a bit less recoil and with the uglier than ugly but well shaped grip is easier for me to rapid fire. At 15 feet I can shoot a decent Happy Face...well, the corner of his mouth looks like he had a stroke or sumptin, but you know what I mean.

Subject: Remind me again: How'd you sweet talk... From: Marko To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 23:58:45 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Arcom: Remind me again, how'd you sweet talk me into selling you that hi-cap .380? ;) Seriously, I missed it so much after I sold it that I went out and got another (although in 9x18). Which I ended up trading for the HS 2000. So guess what Mak I'd like to (re)aquire now... But unlike my good friend SlimTim, I am not a 9x18 snob. Purist, shmurist. I'll take a .380 hi-cap in a heartbeat (or a .380 Norinco, or a .380 SE, or a .380...). And you'd be hard pressed to separate me from my .380 CZ-83. SlimTim: don't fight it, pal. Go with it. If it's a Mak, even though it's a .380, it's still a Mak! Take care all. Marko

Subject: Yea, but... From: McPhil To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 01:12:46 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: It's another dern caliber ya gotta go out and get!!! McPhil

Subject: Only Mel Gibson can shoot happy faces From: ScoutnStAugustine To: arcom Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 23:19:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Ever notice that Mel and Arcom... From: Marko To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 01:18:29 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Ever notice that Mel and Arcom are never ever seen together. You don't suppose that they're actually both the same pers... Never mind. ;) Marko

Subject: That Means!!!!!! From: Rev Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 07:44:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Arcom Knows what women think? And is that good or bad?

Subject: Better ask Jineen 'bout that!! (ntxt) From: PM To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 19:33:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Dang Arcom... From: McPhil To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 15:16:25 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: I have even that much more respect for you man!!! All hail Arcom, All hail Arcom!!! McPhil

Subject: But... From: McPhil To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 01:13:53 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Mel and Arcom are both LEO:):):):):) McPhil

Subject: Re: True Confessions (of the .380 kind) From: TENNESSEEAN To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 19:36:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: He done snuck in and got if fore I got there. TN

Subject: mak grips From: jonjay To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 15:48:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: are all the mak grips interchangable?? german grips on a bulgarian ect.....

Subject: Re: mak grips From: arcom To: jonjay Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 17:03:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: All grips are interchangeable. Differences exist in the type and length of the attaching screw, but all screws are 5mm standard pitch. Some of the holes on the grips have a smaller opening and use a smaller fluted head screw--in these cases you can substitute a 5mm allen head screw like what the Pearce grips use. East Germans use a common slot head which is a bit larger than the Russkie/Bulgarian screws. I personally like the allen head screws but it does require an allen wrench to take them off. You can't just get away with the Mak cleaning rod/tool, some patches and solvent/lube. HTH

Subject: NEED PIERCE GRIP From: RON 1 To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:21:03 (EST) Email Address: betty1112@netzero.net Message: ANYONE GOT PIERCE GRIP FORSALE FOR MY 8 ROUND BULG. MAK

Subject: Re: NEED PIERCE GRIP From: Ding To: RON 1 Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:05:16 (EST) Email Address: ding@xmission.com Message: KARL SELLS THEM FOR $20 EACH AT WWW.MAKAROV.COM

Subject: Bulgarian mak markings? From: jonjay To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:06:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have a bulgarian circle 10 marked and after the serial numbers there seems to be a scrubbed 42 in a circle or possible in parenthesis? it also looks like a diamond in front of the scrubbed mark. anyone know what these symbols may be?? Thanks

Subject: CZ-75 PCR range report From: Pilot To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 07:51:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, no I didn't buy one, but I got lucky at the range yesterday. The person in the lane next to me was shooting a PCR. It is his only gun for range and carry. After chatting for a bit, I offered to let him try my Browning High Power (9MM). Of course he offered to let me try the PCR. We switched guns and I was able to put about a box of ammo through the PCR. Wow! Easy to shoot, accurate, 100% reliable in the 50 rounda I fired and the owner said he never had an FTF or problem. What impressed me were the sights and the lack of felt recoil. I thought the alloy frame would make the recoil, albeit from a 9MM a little sharp. But this was not the case. The grip design and balance of this gun are so good, the recoil feels a bit less than a Mak with Pearce grips! The owner of the PCR loved the BHP, because of the extra weight and less muzzle flip. I didn't notice much muzzle flip on the PCR, but I guess its a little more than the BHP. Not a distraction though as I was able to get 1 inch groups at 7 yards and 3 - 4inch groups casually shooting at 25 yards. The PCR is a fine pistol and for the more traditionalist its a great carry/range option. Personally, I like it due to the standard layout and design. I'd like to shoot the HS2000 to see if I could ever go to the polymer side, but for now, the PCR seems like a good next 'investment'. Take care all. Pilot

Subject: Oh sure. I tempt you with the HS2000... From: Marko To: Pilot Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 00:01:46 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Pilot: Oh sure. I tempt you with the HS2000, and you tempt me with the PCR... Seriously, I'm glad to finally see a range report on one. Why is my wallet screaming 'No mas! No mas!' ;) Take care, Marko

Subject: Marko, Rev... From: Pilot To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 08:30:06 (EST) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: Marko/Rev. I may just have to get an HS2000 AND a PCR. I can't make up my mind!!! Rev. Maybe you better move to a better community. Good luck. Pilot

Subject: No cure in sight From: Rev Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 07:53:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Gentlement Im surprised your wives let you play in this sand box. With all the tempting and wallet draining. I got it good and bad. Were averageing a murder a week in these parts now so my wife doesnt mind the guns as much. Last week a drug dealer down the street shot himself in the back 9 times(Im told he even reloaded). Yesterday 2 kids mad at another kid did a drive bye on his father. Insanity Unbelievible! So should I add a plug for my 10mm witness, hehe, na Ill just watch you two plug it out:) Rev Rob

Subject: Cool! On my list to look at! Thanks From: Rev Rob To: Pilot Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 13:51:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Mak mags From: blazerfan To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 22:09:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just wondering if there's a difference in quality, reliability, etc in mak mags? Do they work equally well in all guns? (different countries)

Subject: Re: Mak mags From: Greg S. To: blazerfan Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:17:30 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: Disabilly and Carlos pretty much covered it. The 8 Rd. magazines with the hump at the bottom (covering the slide stop flange) are to my knowledge from East Germany. The other style are Russian and Bulgarian, Chinese also? I don't have any Chinese mags, Maybe someone with a bona fide Chink MaK can tell us what the mags look like. I have such a hodge podge of mags, 70 in all. They all work great. Some need a little tweaking as Carlos has said. I've had to stone the feed lips on quite a few to solve a problem with the round hanging up halfway out. I have two Russian commercial maks and a Nolan Mak-Pak Bulgarian. The magazines are interchangable. Can't go wrong with the original EG, Russkie, or Bulgie mags! Greg S.

Subject: Re: Mak mags From: JimZ To: Greg S. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 14:45:55 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Disabilly and Carlos pretty much covered it. The 8 Rd. magazines with the hump at the bottom (covering the slide stop flange) are to my knowledge from East Germany. The other style are Russian and Bulgarian, Chinese also? I don't have any Chinese mags, Maybe someone with a bona fide Chink MaK can tell us what the mags look like. I have such a hodge podge of mags, 70 in all. They all work great. Some need a little tweaking as Carlos has said. I've had to stone the feed lips on quite a few to solve a problem with the round hanging up halfway out. I have two Russian commercial maks and a Nolan Mak-Pak Bulgarian. The magazines are interchangable. Can't go wrong with the original EG, Russkie, or Bulgie mags! Greg S. --- The magazines that came with my two Chinese Maks (one was new, in box) are similar to the East German versions in that they feature the 'hump'. Anyone see anything different?

Subject: Re: True Confessions (of the .380 kind) From: TENNESSEEAN To: SlimTim Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 19:36:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: He done snuck in and got if fore I got there. TN

Subject: Re: Mak mags From: Carlos Z To: Disabilly Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 00:42:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Of the two types of 8-rd. mags, the only ones I've had a problem with were beat up and dented when I rec'd them and caused the follower to jam. After a little straightening work, problems sloved. So from my experience MO is that both types are equally well made.

Subject: Harrisburg gun show? From: Larriec To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 21:29:07 (EST) Email Address: Message: Hi gang, does anyone know when the next gun show will be in Harrisburg at the Fram Show Bldg. or in Carlisle Pa.? I'm gittin the itch to see some more of them guns.

Subject: Re: Harrisburg gun show? From: Nazman To: Larriec Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 19:20:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Larriec, The next Harrisburg gun show is on May 5th and 6th. That one is the big one in this area (800 to 1000 tables). The one in Carlisle on the 24th and 25th of this month at the Pine Hill Sports Complex isn't worth the time or effort. I went to one there (sponsored by Appalachian Sports, or something like that) last summer. In Shotgun News the advertisement stated 800 tables. There were probably 75 to 100, if that. It wasn't worth the $5 they charged to get in. Stick with the harrisburg Show in may and December and buy from your local dealers. Nazman

Subject: Re: Carlisle 24-25 Feb at Pine Hill (nt) From: BRS To: Larriec Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 05:46:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: off topic From: Fyodr To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 19:40:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Gents, Where in America is Toledo? I just read on the web that Toledo has banned 'assault weapons' in total within its bounds by a vote 9:3. I thought Americans had a right to these arms under your constitution. It seems odd that this occurred. Gun politics never ceases to amaze me wherever it occurs. In my country you go to jail for mere possession of these things. Sorry to bore the uninterested.

Subject: Ohio From: PM To: Fyodr Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 20:30:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Us apathetic Americans are all for ''feel good laws''. We'll only understand after we've lost ALL of our rights.

Subject: Australia From: Fyodr To: PM Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 23:13:09 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Haha, we win! We Aussies have already lost our rights.

Subject: Best deal on a mak... From: AR Ray To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 19:00:43 (EST) Email Address: raysing1@aol.com Message: Greetings, Looking to try one of these fine pistols,Would like EG but will try bulgarian.Any places here in the Sunshine state(Florida)????????.Thanks Ray

Subject: Re: Best deal on a mak... From: ------------- To: AR Ray Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 19:58:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Empire arms has EG's for $175. EA is kinda high, but I just bought a CZ 50 from them and its nice to think they clean 'em up and test fire for fxn before selling... Just MHO

Subject: Re: Best deal on a mak... From: Landisbear To: AR Ray Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 00:08:20 (EST) Email Address: Landisbear@hotmail.com Message: click on archives at the main message list. start at Jan 1, 2001 there is a lot of info about Tampa, Lakeland, Jacksonville, Daytona, AND DELRAY BEACH... Picka spot There out there. Just keep looking....

Subject: Tennesseean... From: McPhil To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 16:27:09 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Tennesseean, being one of the resident C&R experts here, I was directed to follow-up on the Walther in 9x18 super as being C&R. Would it fall under Walthers produced at Zella-Mehlis prior to 1946, all calibers, all models??? Thanks, McPhil

Subject: Re: Tennesseean... From: TENNESSEEAN To: McPhil Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 20:49:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Expert no way, but I'll try. It can't qualify on the 50 year rule since these particular guns were produced from 1973 to 1981 apparently at the the request of the Germand police who wanted more power than the .32s and not as much as a 9mm (9x19). I doubt if the powers to be (ATF) would rule it a C&R purley on it's collector status since appproximately 10,000 were produced but who knows. A letter asking for a ruling on it wouldn't hurt. Probably not the answer you were looking for but this is only my opinion.

Subject: O.K. .... Then From: McPhil To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 00:45:12 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: How do you go about sending a letter? What information would you have to give them? Would you have to provide a specimen for them? What do ya do? McPhil

Subject: Re: Information From: TENNESSEEAN To: McPhil Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 18:10:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Here's the inst. from the book. The letter should include: - A complete physical description of the item; - Reasons the collector believes the item merits the classification; and - Data concerning the history of the item, including production figures, if available, and market value As stated in the regulations, submission of the firearm may be required prior to a determination being made. Please submit your request to: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Firearms Technology Branch, Room 6450 650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20226 Include as much info as possible and wait. good luck TN

Subject: Are you thinking......... From: arcom To: McPhil Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 18:05:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: of bidding on Miss T's pistol?? Insructions on requesting a C&R determination are in the Green book on p.119

Subject: Re-Walther PP Super(1973-1979)ntx From: J.F.D. To: McPhil Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 18:19:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: ntx

Subject: Re: Re-Walther PP Super(1973-1979)ntx From: McPhil To: J.F.D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 00:46:23 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: J.F.D., thanks, where did you come up with this information? McPhil

Subject: Re:Fjestad Blue Book of Gun Values(ntx) From: J.F.D. To: McPhil Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 21:50:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: (ntx)

Subject: Two Advil Might Help From: stephen To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 15:44:09 (EST) Email Address: sopwith21@hotmail.com Message: This report from the latest issue of 'Armed Citizen:' >>>>>'The exasperated resident halted the threat with his .22-caliber handgun whose single shot struck his attacker immediately above the eyebrow. The bullet proved no match for (the attacker's) thick skull, though, and after a short stay at a hospital he was remanded to the local hoosegow. (South County Jounal, Kent, WA, 9/2 1 /00)' A .22 is a nice plinker, but even a well-placed shot may not stop your attacker. And I bet this guy paid more for his .22 than I did for my Mak, and it didn't even penetrate his skull at point blank range! CCW guys... carry a caliber that will do the job. IMHO, a .32 is the bare minimum, and THAT'S if you shoot 'em twice. My .380 is even better, and my Mak would've left a hole in this joker's head that you could fly the space shuttle through on a misty day. Read, ponder, gain wisdom. The guy must've been a heckuva shot though, huh?

Subject: Re: One Anvil and call...! ntxt From: Greg S. To: stephen Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:06:20 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message:

Subject: new mak..... From: bernie in OHIO To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 13:50:22 (EST) Email Address: bpressman@neo.rr.com Message: hi all..new to makarov's, usu. collect mosin rifles..anyway just got bulgarian mak yesterday at 140 out the door.nice condition. any tips to the new 'daddy'?? also, is the russian fmj ammo marked non-corrosive REALLY non corrosive. it is made by LVE i think...thanks, bernie.

Subject: Re: Range Report!! From: Greg S. To: bernie in OHIO Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:24:05 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home Message: As a new Mak owner, one serious responsibilty here is to go shoot it!! Then you have to post here how it went ;) Consider it your homework assignment :D Makarov.com website has a big tech section with breakdown and cleaning info. You don't necessarily have to detail strip the thing. Just take the slide and recoil spring off and clean it real good. Clean those magazines too, they are usually full of crud. Greg S.

Subject: Re: new mak..... From: m To: bernie in OHIO Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 16:24:22 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Welcome Bernie to the family. Bulgies are very good. Advice for daddy is to get to know your pistol. It gets better with age and use. There are several pistol owned on this board with in excess of 10,000 rounds with '0' failures. All these from pistols bought for around $150.00, give or take a few. LVE is dirty, but at around $.10 per round it doesn't foul. Barnaul JHP's are good also and a little less dirty is my experience. I like Corbon and they are 'VERY' accurate. The S&B and Fiocchi are good too. I personally like milsurp for all my milsurp weapons, including my Mosins, Mausers and CZ-52. Get to know her and she will be great for you. McPhil

Subject: Marko - HS2000 questions From: MickeyD To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 09:26:29 (EST) Email Address: mmixon@ev1.net Message: Your ''Newest Bestest Buddy'', the HS 2000 in 9mm is listed in the latest SOG sales flyer for $249.95. Is this the same gun you purchased or are there variations? Is this a good price? It comes with 2 10 round mags. Is the gun capable of holding more than 10 rounds, ie. do they make a 15 round mag? Does it come in a 45 cal? I know several cops that purchase the Glock 22 just for the 15 round mag. I know one of the cz 75's come with a 15 round mag, but don't know how the hs 2000 compares with the cz-75. Sorry about all the questions...Sunday mornings seem to bring out the curious side of me. TIA MickeyD

Subject: You been sneakin' south of the border... From: Marko To: MickeyD Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 13:11:45 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey MickeyD: Where've you been for the past few days? Sneakin' south of the border for some tequilla maybe? ;) We've been covering most of your questions recently. Scroll down a few posts and you'll see my my reply to Markus about how the CZ and HS compares. Also, the ones advertised in the flyer are indeed the same as mine, and $249 is an excellent price. As for hi-caps, the Beretta 92FS mags fit after having a hole drilled for the mag catch. There's some debate here currently as to the legality. Take care, and careful you don't swallow the worm... ;) Marko

Subject: One point though...about the worm.... From: McPhil To: Marko Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 14:44:17 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Marko, the worm is at the bottom of the bottle... When you get there it doesn't take much to be enticed to savor the delicacy:):):) McPHil

Subject: As they say... From: Marko To: McPhil Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 23:03:17 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: McPhil: I might be a Pennsylvania Yankee, but as they say, 'Been there, done that.' --- I have to admit, there's at least a grain of truth to the old college fraternity stereotypes... ;) Take care. Marko (Sigma Alpha Nu)

Subject: Re: As they say... From: McPhil To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 00:48:11 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Some of us remember our college days.... and BEFORE we got married:) McPhil

Subject: WHAT!!!...You're NOT supposed to eat It? From: MickeyD To: McPhil Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 16:54:57 (EST) Email Address: mmixon@ev1.net Message: .

Subject: Pic: Dean's Walther in 9x18 Super From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 00:12:44 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Here's a picture of Dean's new Walther in 9x18 Super. You can see its distinguishing characteristics much better here than in the pic I posted of the one at Auction Arms. Seems like a rather neat and unusual addition to a collection. I'm quite jealous. Take care all. Marko albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=302006&a=2244395&p=39985892

Subject: Re: Pic: Dean's Walther in 9x18 Super From: CC Coleman To: Marko Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 20:32:30 (EST) Email Address: exexpat93@aol.com Message: Looks like a P-5. Is it the same size as a P-5 or more in the size catagory as the PP series? Too bad the 9x18 Super isn't compatible with the 9mm Makarov caliber. Astra seemed to try to make a few firearms in the 30's and 40's that bridged all of the funky 9mm calibers floating around Europe at the time; 9mm Largo, Luger, Steyr, short, long, rimmed, spotted, etc. In some ways I wish some of the saner firearms manufactures would make universal magazines; take the best designed ones and make it a standard type for the caliber of firearm. Looks like your gun is a beauty and a collectors item; the only question is how frequently will you be able to shoot it if you don't reload your own. Is there surplus out there in 9x18 Super?

Subject: Range Report From: Ron W. To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 22:34:06 (EST) Email Address: ronsw@fastlane.net Message: Someone asked me to tell how the Russian military Mak shoots. This is the non-import I got for $150 last month. My wife and I shot 7 Maks today, Russian commercial, Russian military, 4 EG, and a Bulgarian military. All shot exactly the same. Only one had problems with jamming and it worked well with a different mag. I blame the mag. All shot a little low and to the left. However they all shot center with my left hand (I am right handed). Never tried left hand before. Used 'green box' Russian FMJ, EG from Cole, and Barnaul hollow points. All worked about the same, except the green box had more kick and more sparks. Shot some other guns, but that is another forum.

Subject: Re: Range Report From: stephen To: Ron W. Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 15:49:40 (EST) Email Address: sopwith21@hotmail.com Message: Thanks for the report. We're always hearing about the differences between the Maks, and how great the Russian military one are. Its nice to know my common, boring old Bulgie will shoot with the 'best' of 'em. And I don't have to worry about scratching it!

Subject: 9x18 Super/Ultra interest From: McPhil To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 18:25:21 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Hey guys, with this Walther interest, I am wondering what other weapons are chambered in 9x18 super or ultra or whatever it is. This could be an interesting addition to the collection. McPhil

Subject: By the way, the seller informs me... From: Marko To: McPhil Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 02:17:03 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: By the way, the seller of the Walther on Auction Arms e-mailed me to say he was mistaken in the chambering. It is NOT 9x18 Makarov as is listed. Like Dean's new aquisition, it's chambered for 9x18 Super. The seller is going to revise the auction's description to reflect the pistol's proper chambering. Take care all. Marko

Subject: Re: 9x18 Super/Ultra interest From: Markus To: McPhil Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 19:23:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Excuse my stupedity(is that spelled right?),but what is this 'super'? Is it like a +p in a 38.cal?

Subject: Re: 9x18 Super/Ultra interest From: Kyrie To: Markus Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 20:32:10 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: No sir, no relation :-) The 9x18 mm Ultra is a WWII era German designed cartridge. It was resurrected after the War for use in pistols for sale in those countries that banned civilian ownership of firearm chambered for a military cartridge. Hope this helps! Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: More on (both) Ultra rounds From: arcom To: Kyrie Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 20:56:17 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: In 1936 the Germans created an intermediate 9X18 rounds called the Ultra and tested it in a Walther PP like pistol. The original Ultra sported a 108 grain bullet the travelled at 950 fps compared to the original stubby 94 grain Mak at 1050 and the hot Russian 108 grain at about 1030 fps. The 1970's saw the German introduction of a 9X18 Ultra round (it was a flop) that was nothing like the 1936 Ultra. The Walther pistol we have been mulling over is in fact a Walther, but it is NOT a PP. --Thanks to Bob Shimek for this info.

Subject: Are we talking bout the Bob Shimek... From: Marko To: arcom Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 23:23:23 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Arcom: Are we talking about Bob Shimek, the Guns & Ammo columnist and NRA Police Firearms Instructor? If so, some of you might not know that he passed away sometime around Halloween. I remember seeing his obituary in one of the local Pittsburgh papers, as he had quite a few ties to our area. I can't remember the cause of death, but I do recall that it was at an untimely early age. Anyone out there have more info? Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Yeah, that Bob Shimek... From: BRS To: Marko Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 09:19:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Bob wrote for Guns and Ammo for a number of years, and other gun rags as well. He knew his subject, and wrote extremely well. He lived over by Sarver and we corresponded a few times. He and his wife used to come north here around the Sinnemahoning river country. Great guy. BRS

Subject: Arcom . . .? From: Dean To: arcom Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 21:25:44 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: Arcom, my friend, it is marked 'PP-Super 9x18'. Don't mean to be testy, but why is it not a Walther PP when it says 'PP Super 9x18' on the slide? I don't understand. I like to read Bob Shimek, but can he possibly be mistaken? McPhil, this is all your fault, but I agree, it's certainly worth looking at. Wonder if you could put a 9x18 Makarov barrel on this sucker? The field strip is identical to a Makarov. It's like maybe a Makarov was designed with this pistol in mind.

Subject: Arcom is never wrong . . .? From: Jineen To: Dean Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 17:15:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Rule #1--Arcom is never wrong. Rule #2--If proven wrong, see Rule #1. It just doesn't look anything like a PP. All the PP derivatives, regardless of caliber or production date, look identical except for dimensional differences. I do find a listing for a Walther 'PP Super' in 9X18 caliber as a post-war handgun with a value of $450 (in Balderson's 1996 Guide). No picture and no mention of an Ultra caliber, but that doesn't mean it isn't. Could it be a PP Super on someone else's frame. Doubt it. Could I be wrong? See Rule #2.

Subject: Rule #1 From: Dean To: Jineen Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 07:34:32 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: Jineen, you didn't make Arcom go sit in the corner, did you? Actually, I think he's right about everything except this not being a police pistol. The 'Unofficial Walther Homepage' covers this pistol under 'Rare and Lesser Known Walthers' and indicates that Germany did experiment with a 9x18 Ultra in 1936. Then in 1971, West Germany came up with the 9x18 Super. The same website also covers 'The 9mm Family' and shows a difference between the Ultra and Super rounds. What I think is odd is that West Germany wanted something between .32 ACP and 9mm Luger, and East Germany was already using the 9x18 Makarov. Why did West Germany have to be different and come up with a pistol that was doomed to fail from the outset? Maybe good ole Jimmie Carter had some influence. Isn't he the one who wanted us to change to the metric system? Best regards, and youse guys take care. Dean

Subject: Re: Arcom . . .? From: TENNESSEEAN To: Dean Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 23:38:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I may be missing something here but why would you want to put a 9x18 barrel on a gun already chambered for 9x18. I think we're talking about the same round just different bullet weights and powder. I also am curious as to why it's not a pp? TN

Subject: Re: 9x18 Ultra...? From: Greg S. To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 02:47:32 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: I've got a drawing showing the differences between 9x19, 9x17, 9x18Mak, 9x18Police, 9x18Ultra. I'll dig it up and post it. Some other guys around here have it too! Greg S.

Subject: Re: Arcom . . .? From: CW To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 02:39:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It's not quite the same 9x18 (or is that, 'It's not your father's 9x18'?) Our Mak's 9mm is a little bit bigger in diameter than 9mm ultra. -Chris

Subject: Dean, ya caught me... From: McPhil To: Dean Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 23:34:01 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: I like to start lively conversations in person and see what comes up. This is very interesting to several of us it seems and I'd like to get into it as we can all broaden our knowledge. I really like it when you guys get in on stuff and when you and Arcom and Marko start looking up info and doing some digging. Ya'll usually have the right answers 'off the cuff'!!! Wish I was that good!!! Thanks guys, McPhil

Subject: Ok, so is it C&R??? From: McPhil To: McPhil Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 23:42:45 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: I've asked 3 or 4 times now :) And as I pull my PDF, 60 page long, U.S. government C&R list.... It looks to me like on page 31, it should fall into the Walther Pistols, mf. at Zella-Mehlis prior to 1946.... Dean, you've got one I think, would it fall under this designation??? Thanks, McPhil

Subject: Re: Ok, so is it C&R??? From: Dean To: McPhil Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 07:11:31 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: McPhil, it was made at Ulm, West Germany. I think the Walther plant was moved from Zella-Mehlis to Ulm sometime after the war, to get it out of the Soviet sector. I did find some info at the 'unofficial Walther' website, but cannot seem to get it to open up again. Anyway, there's a section on different 9mm ammo and this indicates a difference in 9x18 Makarov, 9x18 Super and 9x18 Ultra. All three are different. This site shows the 9x18 Makarov case to be slightly longer and larger in diameter than the 9x18 Super round, like Kyrie says. Hopefully, Greg S. will be able to post his specs. Anyway, I won't be shooting this thing until I find the right ammo. HTH

Subject: Re: Spec posting.... From: Greg S. To: Dean Date Posted: Tues, Feb 06, 2001 at 03:40:28 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: As far as posting the drawing goes, my ISP has downed the webspace servers to move them. They downed them 3 times in the last month. Now the message says, Don't call us we'll call you when you can access your webpage again :( I'll see if I can gewt photopoint to work for me. I'll post as new on top of the message list!! Greg S.

Subject: Russian sightings From: ScoutnStAugustine To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 17:06:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: FYI, Ace Firearms here in St. Augustine has 2 Russians. A NEW excellent condition .380, and a used but very good condition 9x18. Bad new is that he is asking $275.00 a piece, but he may come down some. I dont work there or anything, just trying to keep Maks 'in the family'. I'd hate to see guns like these get bought up by somebody who's gonna trash 'em out.

Subject: Re: Russian sightings From: Freightman To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 19:23:42 (EST) Email Address: fglennb@nts-online.net Message: I just missed a Russian 380 the pawn shop got $135 for. I decided to late to get it knew I should have jumped on it, but the tax man has come and I am broke.

Subject: Marko: Cz75B vs HS2000 From: Markus To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 15:07:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko! How would you compare the HS2000 to the CZ75B? Locally, I have not seen the HS2000 except at a gunshow and it was priced at $335.(I know you got yours for less than $300) So from a price perspective I would be paying close to the same amount for either gun. I am partial to steel rather than Tupperware but I at the same time I want the best for my money. Then comes the hard part: How to convince my wife that I need it.TIA

Subject: CZ75 PCR vs. HS2000? From: Pilot To: Markus Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 08:32:40 (EST) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: Ok Markus, Marko, Rev, arcom, et al, Here's a tougher question and my current quandry. Both lighter, concealbe pistols. The PCR has all the benfits of a CZ and less weight and size. This is a REAL tough one. What's all of your opinions? It is an EX-Parrot! (we are all really nerds, aren't we?) Pilot

Subject: Hard to say... From: Marko To: Pilot Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 23:40:39 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Ok Markus, Marko, Rev, arcom, et al, Here's a tougher question and my current quandry. Both lighter, concealbe pistols. The PCR has all the benfits of a CZ and less weight and size. This is a REAL tough one. What's all of your opinions? It is an EX-Parrot! (we are all really nerds, aren't we?) Pilot --- Pilot: Because I haven't fired a PCR yet, I can't say for sure. Rev Rob probably summed it up pretty well in his post below (i.e., it depends on whether you prefer the classic CZ style of pistol, or the more modern polymer style). However, I can tell you the following about the PCR: After finally getting the chance to handle one at a local shop, its design and fit and finish really impressed me. It retains many of the features of its big brother, the CZ75B. But it also has its own distinct features too. Obviously, it's smaller than the full-size 75 (about the size of a CZ83), but it's noticeabley lighter too, thanks to its alloy frame. A much more concealable weapon than the fullsize. Sights are good, it points well, and it sits comfortabley in the hand. It also has a deckocker, front and rear cocking serrations, and a firing pin indicator. But the kicker is that (I believe) it accepts the fullsize hi-cap mags (albiet they do protrude past the bottom of the butt). Current price in my neck of the woods is $439. That's $180 more than the HS, and $100 more than the 75B. So it's not cheap. But, considering the junk that $439 can buy you, it's not a bad price either. Right now, my stable is kind of heavy in the 9mm department or else I might have owned one by now. On the other hand, I'm partial to compacts and this one ''speaks'' to me. So I may get one yet. Especially if I can find a lower price (I've got a couple of local dealers checking for me). If HS America comes out with its .40S&W version soon, I may trade up on my HS2000 9mm. In which case, I'd be even more likely to fill the 9mm vacancy with the PCR. In the meantime, I'd sure like to hear from some actual PCR owners. Hope this helped. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: CZ75 PCR vs. HS2000? From: Rev Rob To: Pilot Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 22:51:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Pilot, I think they are comperible weapons but still as I think Mark will agree, very different. I think the PCR is a great adaptation of a standard design. As I carry a CZ 75 design daily the PCR would be a very appealing design for me. However If soemone was interested in the very different, Glock, Sig polymer design with some realy nice inovation well the HS2000 is the one to look at. Good comparison of efficiant models, but definitly diferent types of pistols. In short the preference, traditional CZ 75 vs New Polymer design is totally up to the individual. PS My Witness cost about the same as what the HS2000 is going for these days. I personally liked the 10mm aspect But if I had come accross a HS2000 before finding my Witness, id probably have one. Just my opinion. Rev Rob

Subject: Talk about asking the tough questions! From: Marko To: Markus Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 18:21:28 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey Markus: No 'softball' questions from you, huh? This is really a tough one, as the CZ and the HS are such different animals. At least with the Glock, there are a number of obvious similarities for comparison purposes. Actually, I had an entire response to you just about ready to go, when I decided to go grab a cup of joe. My 3-year-old decided this would be a good time to go into Daddy's office and start punching keys on the keyboard. I couldn't retrieve the post, so give me some time to regroup my thoughts and I'll get back to you. Marko

Subject: Okay Markus, here's my answer (long) From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 02:12:01 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Markus: As I said earlier, you really know how to ask the tough ones. I was fortunate that I didn’t have to choose between the two. Both the CZ and the HS offer separate features that appeal to me. Luckily, both pistols are so inexpensively priced that I was able to afford both. But if I could only have one… I’d say it would depend on what is most important to me in a pistol. Also, the opportunity to try out a pistol would weigh heavily in my decision. Thanks to a friend who owns one, I’ve been able to extensively shoot the CZ. Currently, none of my local ranges rent the HS. I took the plunge on one because in handling one at a local shop it seemed quite well made, it contained a large number of standard features usually found only on more expensive pistols, it received very favorable reviews in several major gun rags, and I was able to trade two firearms in which I had invested very little money. Now, obviously having had the chance to extensively fire it, I can take comfort in the fact that I received a quality pistol. The CZ and the HS are similar in that both are comfortable to shoot, both point naturally, both are robustly built, both possess a good deal of accuracy, and both are more than reasonably priced. But there are a number of dissimilarities as well. The CZ is the classic combat style of pistol: big, steel, cocked & locked and single-action capable. The HS is all modern LEO: polymer, striker fired, D/A only trigger, tactical rails, and redundant safeties. The average citizen owning the CZ can use legal 15rd preban mags, but it leans toward the large and heavy side when it comes to concealed carry – and some are uncomfortable with the cocked & locked concept. The HS only holds 10 rounds in civilian configuration (although there is a good deal of debate about the legality of it using Beretta 92FS hi-cap mags), but it’s light and relatively compact – and it contains the previously mentioned redundant safeties. This isn’t to say that either pistol wouldn’t perform well in the other’s shoes, it’s just that each pistol has its certain strengths. As for accuracy, both pistols shoot better than me. But in the hands of a well trained shooter, I think the CZ would edge out the HS for several reasons. The CZ has a longer barrel, its slide runs inside the frame – making for a very stable and consistent shooting platform, and its well respected S/A trigger lends itself to more accurate shots. Which are some of the reasons, I suppose, that so many owners use the CZ in competitive shooting matches. The CZ is a pistol of proven reliability, longevity, and accuracy and comes from a well established manufacturer. The HS, while showing tremendous promise, needs to perform consistently over a long period of time in order to firmly establish itself as a top-shelf pistol. I tend to believe that it will, but only time will tell for sure. So what’s the bottom line? Again, it goes back to what’s most important to you. If a manufacturer’s proven track record, a great trigger, hi-cap mags, and the possibility of competitive shooting appeal to you, I’d lean toward the CZ. If concealability, safety, Glock-type features and the ability to easily mount tactical gear appeals to you, I’d lean toward the HS. The beautiful thing about this whole comparison is that there’s not a bad choice to make. While each has its strengths, each can also function well in the other’s natural environment. The fact that both are virtually identically priced means that you don’t have to factor in cost as one of the variables. Choose the features you desire most and your decision will be made for you. …I’m just glad I didn’t have to do the choosing ;) Hope this helped. Take care. Marko

Subject: Thanks Marko! From: Markus To: Marko Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 18:24:54 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: What do you mean? From: Rev Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 22:05:25 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Markus: 'What do you mean, an African or European Swollow?' :)

Subject: Oh no! Another Monte Python fan?? From: Marko To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 23:04:42 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Markus: 'What do you mean, an African or European Swollow?' :) --- Rev Rob: Very few people know the dynamic airspeed of an unlaiden swallow. ;) By the way: 'WHAT is your quest?' Take care. Marko

Subject: Now for soemthing completely Different From: Rev Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 00:02:20 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, To find the Holy Mak of course!!!:) But If King Aurthor's men have Makarovs and The Knights who say Neee have Glocks? Well Look at the bones man, Looks at the bones!!! FYI: No HS2000, CZ52s or Tanfoglios were hurt during the making of this string!! Well thats what happens to me in between Saterday night and Sunday morning services.;) Rev Rob

Subject: HS2000 $389 at Clearfield, PA . . . From: BRS To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 18:51:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . at Bob's Army-Navy, which is in keeping with their prices. Those of us in the Laurel Highlands of PA are fortunate to have Bob's and Grice's in Clearfield for their selection, but each time I visit them I am struck with the thought that we pay fairly well for it. Bill's Guns in New Alexandria, PA (see post here a week ago or so) had the HS2000 for $280, if I recall. I picked up the one at Bob's today and handled it a bit. Wonderfully ergonomic grip, and one doesn't even notice the grip safety. Decent trigger pull, too. Being raised on single-action 1911s and High Powers, I might be too old at halfway to 92 to switch to the striker-type. But then, the Makarov cured me of my fear of DA pistols! PS: If any of you cruise northern PA, be sure to check out Elk County Ammo & Arms in St. Marys, too. BRS

Subject: HS2000 for $429!!??!? From: SlimTim To: BRS Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 19:16:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . at Bob's Army-Navy, which is in keeping with their prices. Those of us in the Laurel Highlands of PA are fortunate to have Bob's and Grice's in Clearfield for their selection, but each time I visit them I am struck with the thought that we pay fairly well for it. Bill's Guns in New Alexandria, PA (see post here a week ago or so) had the HS2000 for $280, if I recall. I picked up the one at Bob's today and handled it a bit. Wonderfully ergonomic grip, and one doesn't even notice the grip safety. Decent trigger pull, too. Being raised on single-action 1911s and High Powers, I might be too old at halfway to 92 to switch to the striker-type. But then, the Makarov cured me of my fear of DA pistols! PS: If any of you cruise northern PA, be sure to check out Elk County Ammo & Arms in St. Marys, too. BRS --- I can top that! Can't recall the dealer (I RAN away from his table when I saw the HS2000 price), but at a show in Dalton, GA 2 weeks ago, there was a HS2000 sitting pretty with a $429 price tag on it. I usually don't begrudge a man his price and just look elsewhere if I don't like it, but MAN he was high on that! -- ST

Subject: HS2000 $274.99 in stock From: Bills Guns To: BRS Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 08:07:02 (EST) Email Address: WLP97@AOL.COM Message: We have the HS2000 for $274.99 each or $269.99 each on two or more.Extra mags are $19.99 each.Order any gun $20.00 above cost.Give me a ring or e-mail before you buy your next gun,I can quote a price that will make you smile!Bills Guns R.D.#2 box 621 New Alexandria,Pa.15670.724-668-8250 Evenings.E-mail wlp97@aol.com Thanks-Bill.

Subject: Laurel Highlands? From: Rev Rob To: BRS Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 22:03:30 (EST) Email Address: RevRob@cvzoom.net Message: Hay BRS im in the BRS and I never heard of Bobs. Write me so we can triangulate? Rev Rob

Subject: CZ52 misfires update From: bktwang To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 10:58:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: In reference to my recent post about strange CZ 52 misfires, I was at the range the other day and there were no 'mis fires' for a while. This was with the same ammo that had seemingly had 100% misfires the previous range session.. After carefully watching everything I was doing, it finally dawned on me that on recoil the safety lever was kicking up a little bit towards the safe position. Like only 1/8 inch! I discovered that, on my gun, the safety must be absolutely as far south as it will go. If it kicks up only a little bit it locks the firing pin apparently and the hammer will fall but the firing pin won't strike the primer. If you aren't aware of what it is it seems like a misfire. The safety was kicking up only a little bit. Maybe the detent notches or whatever are worn. Anybody else run into this situation? Is this typical of a CZ52? Obviously, I am still learning about this fascinating pistol.

Subject: Re: CZ52 misfires update From: Flash To: bktwang Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 12:59:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I thought this was the case, too. Whenever I fire my CZ, the safety lever comes up just a little, which I thought was keeping it from shooting. So, I started putting it all the way down and that help for a while. Then it happened again. Finally, I figured out what was going wrong! The CZ-52 has a firing pin safety to keep it from shooting while cocked and locked in case it should be dropped on the hammer. If you do not allow the trigger to travel forward enough, then this safety will not 'reset' and the gun will not fire. Anyway, the last time it happened to me, I just let up a little with my trigger finger and let it come forward and 'BANG'. When I had been messing with the safety, my finger wasn't on the trigger. That had been fixing the problem, not me pushing the safety all the way down. Anyway, you can check it out next time you take the slide off. There is a little piece of metal that presses into a notch just below the pin that will allow it to move forward. After spending more time with my CZ, I've had no trouble at all. You only have to get used to the trigger.

Subject: Re-Finishing! From: Mac's! To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 08:11:23 (EST) Email Address: shootiniron@msn.com Message: Hello All and thanks for the great exposure that we have been getting on this board! I visit about twelve boards a day to see what's up and must say that this one is by way far the most helpful, polite and imformative! We have gotten a lot of business from this board and appreciate it all! Rik's Mak was done in OD Green and Black and the contrast looks really nice. We can also do the finish in one of several shades of Gray and Brown or any combo thereof. We also offer a camo pattern with up to seven colors and the color level can be adjusted to suit your specs but that's for long guns. The price for what we call a Standard Job on a Makarov is $95 but we like Mak's so we throw in some options for no extra charge. Two Tone, extra mags, minor custom work, etc. Rik's Mak came with a Beast slide that had a lot of overhang at the back so we shaved it down to match the frame. Feed ramp and chamber polishing, slide lapping, site dots, etc. are all part of the job. Our turn around time is two weeks or a bit less. Thanks again for keeping this board decent! Keep yer powder dry, Mac. Mac's Shootin' Irons www.shootiniron.com

Subject: Re: You do a good job, too! From: Greg S. To: Mac's! Date Posted: Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 03:08:01 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message:

Subject: Is CZ-75B 9mm easily converted to... From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 03:48:47 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey CZ-75B experts: Is it possible to easily convert the 9mm version .40S&W, or is it a completely different animal? Sure would be handy to just perform a barrel and mag swap. Thanks. Take care. Marko

Subject: Thanks for the responses From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 23:25:46 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Thanks for the responses. I was just getting my hopes up, that's all. Take care. Marko

Subject: No (ctxt) From: Bret To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 22:15:53 (EST) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: Unfortunately it can't be done. Not only are there several parts different inside the slide like most pistols that have 9mm and 40S&W versions, but in this case the slide is different at the muzzle also. http://www.cz-usa.com/contens/images/feat75_1.gif - Bret

Subject: Tanfoglio Witness From: Rev Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 22:09:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I know in the Witness which is a CZ75 copy the 40s and 10mm are a different frame than the 9mm's. How ever if you have the heavier frame I think you can purchase the lighter barrel and use it. Rev Rob

Subject: Tanfolio Witness From: Rev Rob To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 22:08:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I know in the Witness which is a CZ75 copy the 40s and 10mm are a different frame than the 9mm's. How ever if you have the heavier frame I think you can purchase the lighter barrel and use it. Rev Rob

Subject: Re: Is CZ-75B 9mm easily converted to... From: PM To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 17:46:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm hardly a CZ expert, but I think this isn't possible. I've heard the 40 Klinton & Wesson CZ75 is a totally different animal than the 9mm Para.

Subject: Re: Is CZ-75B 9mm easily converted to... From: Dennis To: PM Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 20:53:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Also the 40cal. is made out of steel and the 9mm is made out of an alloy.

Subject: Walther at Auctionarms From: McPhil To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:10:23 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: There is a Walther PP at Auctionarms that says it in 9x18. I always assumed that Walthers were in .380. Are there Walthers in 9x18 and are they C&R??? TIA McPhil

Subject: Found one . . . From: Dean To: McPhil Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 16:23:27 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: at a small gun show in Tulsa today. Couldn't believe it, especially at such a small show. It's a Walther PP Super 9x18, made in West Germany by Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do. It was imported by Interarms, shown in small (1/16 inch?) letters stamped on frame just foward of the trigger guard. It was owned by an individual an he insisted you could use .380 ammo. Why argue? Anyway, I checked at some tables for ammo and reloads. Could not find 9x18 Super, but all said 9x18 Makarov is okay in this pistol, but 9x18 Super is too hot for a Makarov. Anybody know for sure? A special thanks to Marko for posting his picture. If I hadn't seen the pic I probably would have walked right on past this one. Thanks, Mark! By the way, TN, the trigger is slicker 'n snot on a gold tooth.

Subject: Re: Found one . . . From: Kyrie To: Dean Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 17:23:36 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: at a small gun show in Tulsa today. Couldn't believe it, especially at such a small show. It's a Walther PP Super 9x18, made in West Germany by Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do. It was imported by Interarms, shown in small (1/16 inch?) letters stamped on frame just foward of the trigger guard. It was owned by an individual an he insisted you could use .380 ammo. Why argue? Anyway, I checked at some tables for ammo and reloads. Could not find 9x18 Super, but all said 9x18 Makarov is okay in this pistol, but 9x18 Super is too hot for a Makarov. Anybody know for sure? A special thanks to Marko for posting his picture. If I hadn't seen the pic I probably would have walked right on past this one. Thanks, Mark! By the way, TN, the trigger is slicker 'n snot on a gold tooth. --- Hi Dean, .380 ACP in a 9x18 Ultra! I am continually amazed (and profoundly disappointed) in the number of people who think it’s safe to shoot any ammunition that will fit into the chamber regardless of what the ammunition is and which cartridge the firearm is actually chambered for. There are very good reasons that one of the basic rules of safe firearm handling and use is “Use only the proper ammunition.” Whew! I feel better. Thank you for allowing me to ventilate :-) Here are the problems you’re up against. Firing the .380 ACP (9x17) in a pistol chambered for the 9x19 Ultra (aka 9x18 Police) creates a situation similar in consequences to excessive headspace. The too short cartridge is held to the breech face by extractor tension long enough for the firing pin to strike and set off the primer. But the firing pin blow can drive the entire cartridge deep into the chamber. The same chamber pressure that is thrusting the bullet down the bore can then slam the cartridge case back into the breech face. If you even suspect this pistol has been fired with .380 ACP, carefully examine the slide and frame for cracks. If you find any don’t shoot the pistol! It’s now junk. Also look carefully at the extractor - it may be chipped or broken. Regarding firing the 9x18 Makarov cartridge in a pistol chambered for the 9x18 Ultra - don’t even try. Remember the basic rule “Use only the proper ammunition.” The 9x18 Ultra uses a true 9 mm (0.355 inch) bullet. The 9x18 Makarov isn’t a true 9 mm - it’s closer to 9.2 mm (0.363 inch). I don’t know if it’s even possible to chamber a 9x18 Makarov cartridge in a pistol chambered for the 9x18 Ultra. If it is, and that 9x18 Makarov cartridge were to be fired, getting a .363 bullet down a .355 bore in a blowback firearm will likely produce some fireworks - and a trip to the ER for the shooter! Let’s be careful out there... Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: Way to go! From: Marko To: Dean Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 16:41:59 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Dean: Way to go. I'm curious about the 9x18 Mak ammo in a 9x18 Super pistol. Maybe it's akin to using 38sp in a .357mag. Also, while everyone is in the picture taking mood, any chance of posting some pics? The pistol looked interesting in the photo from the auction that I posted, but I'd like to see some other angles. What's your initial impression of the workmanship and ergonomics of this piece? Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Way to go! From: Dean To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 17:05:32 (EST) Email Address: wayland@mmind.net Message: Thanks, Marko, and thanks again for posting the pic. Workmanship is typical Walther - excellent. Ergonomics - it fits my hand just right and it's more filling than a PPK/S and this may eliminate the notorious Walther 'bite'. The size is almost identical to a Makarov, just a little larger than a PPK/S. At the show, everyone said '9x18 is 9x18, but Super is hotter than a Makarov'. Before firing it with 9x18 Makarov, I'd like to get some input from some the guys here we all trust. This thing is sooo NASTY! Not cosmoline, just nasty - grease, oil, fuzz, lint and hair balls. It has a little holster wear but the bore is bright and shiney. I'll get it cleaned up right away. I don't have a digital camera, but I can get some 35's and have them developed. Might have to ask you to do the posting. Or, maybe I should go ahead and get a digital. Right now I need some hot water and soap.

Subject: Forgot to mention rear sight From: Dean To: Dean Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 16:36:35 (EST) Email Address: w Message: The rear sight is adjustable in a manner similar to the Chinese Mak. It fits in a dove-tail slot and has a threaded allen head-looking screw to push the sight fron side to side. In front of the sight there's a phillips screw in place of staking it with a punch. Never seen this before.

Subject: Re: Walther at Auctionarms From: arcom To: McPhil Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 05:02:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I don't think it's a Walther, though I'm no Walther expert. My book shows a zillion pictures of PPs PPKs and PPK/Ss...none of them look like it at all. Since the 9x18 caliber is a post war product (that's WW2 for you youngsters) it would mean the pistol was a 'new' model or at least a newly available caliber. I dunno.

Subject: Link... From: McPhil To: McPhil Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:11:22 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1023800

Subject: Check out earlier post From: Marko To: McPhil Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:29:07 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1023800 --- McPhil: Check out my earlier post concerning this same pistol (I'll try to include the pic here). Several of the folks here noted that these were chambered for a number of different rounds, including 9x18 Makarov and 9x18 Police Supper. I e-mailed the seller asking if he was sure it was 9x18 Makarov. He replied that on second thought, it may be Police Super. He's supposed to check and get back to me. If it's 9x18 Mak, it would be a neat addition to the 9x18 collection. Take care Marko. Link to Marko's post: http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=mak12&id=15918.694441761467 Image?: [IMG]http://216.25.120.68/january/walt.jpg[/IMG]

Subject: Got it, thanks (ntxt) From: McPhil To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 04:52:43 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message:

Subject: Grips for Mak? From: Serg To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 00:22:31 (EST) Email Address: ecuriousme@yahoo.com Message: I have both a Russian and an East German Makarov and I find the flat stock grips on both a bit harsh. The grips just feel so sharp and stiff. Which aftermarket grips do you guys like and why? TIA Serg

Subject: Re: Grips for Mak? From: BRS To: Serg Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 06:48:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Call me nuts, but the one I like the best is the 'cheesy red star thumbrest' grip, because the plastic in that one does not slip in my hand. There's something different about the material compared to the coefficient of friction of the black EG, red star w/o grip, black russian, and the black thumbrest that came with some Bulgarians. My hand is on the smallish side, and the other grips feel slicker and do slip readily in my hand. The red thumbrest grip seems to 'lock' in my hand and it stays put. The Pearce is nice, but bulky for me (it is bigger around than my Hi-Powers!) for carry, and I use Pearce for casual plinking. BRS

Subject: Re: Grips for Mak? From: Cameroon To: Serg Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 04:36:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have stock Russian, Pearce and Makawraps. I like the Pearce best overall, with it on my Mak reminds me alot of Sig Sauer's I've shot. The makawrap really changes the whole feel of gun quite radically and I'm not to fond of it. The stock grips beat up my hand like a .454 Casull, though they are great for concealment. Two mags are no problem but 50+ rounds is a chore.

Subject: Re: Grips for Mak? From: PM To: Serg Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 01:39:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My favorites are the good ole' stock EGs. I've got an EG grip on every Mak I've got, except for the Hi-Cap. Can't figure out how to make 'em fit! Small hands seem to like the standard Bakelites, While bigger hands like Pearce Grips. Seems that few people like the Makawrap. You almost have to try out each one to see what you like. The Pearce will be the most comfortable, over all.

Subject: Re: Grips for Mak? From: McPhil To: Serg Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 01:24:24 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: I like the Pearse grips. I have fairly large hands and it feels good in my hand. I took it off my carry gun because it slowed down my pulling my Mak out for self defense. I put the black E. German on for that. Slimmer and less obvious. HTH. McPhil

Subject: Miltex Special Edition 380 pics From: OneShot To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 21:54:07 (EST) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: Hi All! Going to gove posting pics a shot. I took a few today and know so of you all would like to se my new acquisition..the 'rescue' Miltex. Like I said before, she's a beauty, all shiny and new. On a different I have gotten a few e-mails inquiring if I was gonna keep her. I'm probably not..I just don't want to add another caliber to the stable. So, tomorrow I'll sit down when I have a few min. and reply to you who have e-mailed me. And now on with the show!... ......or maybe not... OK sorry to get you all excited..this is the edited version of this post..guess my stab at posting pics here failed. I got all the pics in my photopoint account..anyone want to give me a hand on the posting nomenclature? Thanks..I'll post as soon as I figure it out

Subject: Re: Why not install 9x18 barrel? From: BRS To: OneShot Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 00:32:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . in your .380? It is reversible and allows your to keep and fire the SE. Several posters got Makarov parts kit shares and my part with a factory barrel, or Karl has them. You can always switch back. BRS

Subject: Re: Why not install 9x18 barrel? From: vlad To: BRS Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 12:27:50 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: There is no way to install 9x18 barrel on 380 miltex. Actually you can install barrel, but pistol will not function without enlagement of slide portion where case botom is held by extractor. On miltex .380 (at least those I saw) it is smaller in diameter than required for 9x18mak.

Subject: Re: Why not install 9x18 barrel? From: lugermike To: vlad Date Posted: Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 14:46:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yep, same with the recent commercial matte black Bulgarian .380's. The slide was machined specifically for .380, and won't accept a 9x18 case. My Russian .380 uses the same slide type as it's 9x18 brother.....barrells may be switched on it at will. Anyone know the story on the Chinese 380??

Subject: Maaarrrrkooooo! From: Rik To: OneShot Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 22:14:02 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message:

Subject: $ Question for you reloaders From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 17:37:20 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: I've yet to try my hand at reloading. However, a friend is moving up to bigger/better equipment and has offered to sell me his old Rock Crusher, along with dies for 9mm, .45ACP, and 9x18 Makarov for $200. Is this a good machine and is it a good deal? Thanks a lot. Take care all. Marko

Subject: Thanks for all the info From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 23:28:08 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Thanks for all the great info. I really hadn't intended to begin reloading, but I figured if $200 got me well on my way, I might give it a try. I think I'll research the subjest a bit more before I take the plunge. Thanks again. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: That press is overkill . . . From: BRS To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 00:28:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . for a pistolero like you, Bud. The 'Crusher with it's spade handle and longer arm is designed for rifle cartridges first, and in particular for one who forms wildcat cartridge cases. It is too much press and too slow a press for pistol case reloading, although it will do the job slowly. I've used a Rockchucker press for almost 30 years, and for rifle calibers I shoot infrequently, 310 tools. But I did invest in a progressive for .45 ACP, 9 x 19, and .38/.357. Best money ever spent. My advice is to call Dillon (800-762-3845)and get a copy of their Blue Press catalog, call Midway and get theirs, and visit your full-service gun shop and check out the semi-auto and progressive presses designed for pistol cartridge reloading. You'll spend betw. $400 and $600 give or take to get kitted out for a progressive press, dies, die plate, shell holder, scale, powder measure, etc. Once set up, one pull of the handle yields a cartridge. A real timesaver. Braverman's always have a couple dusty Dillons at their tables at Greensburg. If you're serious about handloading, you'll need a sturdy bench or make a portable one; plans are available. Also get at least one or two different reloading manuals like Speer, Hornady, or Lyman, etc., and pick up a few old issues of Handloader's Digest at the shows. And e-mail me with specific questions. BRS

Subject: More like $100 From: Bret To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 22:00:31 (EST) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: Unless RCBS has a press that I don't know about, I'm sure that you're talking about a Rock Chucker. The machine is good. You can get it or a similar model from Hornady for under $100. 9mm and 45ACP dies run about $25 or so from Hornady or RCBS. The last time I checked two years ago, 9mm Mak dies were about $15 more expensive from RCBS than Hornady which cost about $25 too. I use RCBS, Hornady, and Lee dies. They are all good and get the job done, but I prefer Hornady because the seem better made and you can easily add a special bullet seating stem to them that allows you to adjust the seating depth in 0.001' increments. In answer to your question about it being a good deal, I don't think so. You would have to work pretty hard to pay $200 for a Rock Chucker and the three sets of dies. At $100 I might consider it, otherwise I would just buy new equipment. Please post more questions if you have them. - Bret

Subject: Re: $ Question for you reloaders From: Rick C. To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 21:57:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I may take some heat for this, but: The Rockchuckeris quality gear, as is all RCBS-- no doubt. But ifyou're going to loading for primarily pistol catridges, consider a Lee Turret Press. It's not asfast as a progressive press, but it beats the TAR out of loading on a single stage press, especially when using the auto powder measure. I load 9X18,.45 ACP, .44 Mag, and several rifle calibers onmine-- and I owned a Rockchucker at one time so I'mmaking a direct comparison. With the rifle calibersthe powder charges still have to be individuallymeasured out (at least with the equipment I have),so the rotating turret isn't that much of a timesaver with them, but being able to have a completedround with three strokes of the lever (priming on the press) is a great advantage when you want to sit down a crank out a couple hundred rounds or so. And be sure to get carbide dies!

Subject: Re: $ Question for you reloaders From: steve To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:40:44 (EST) Email Address: home4rent@juno.com Message: To be honest, you can buy a new Rock Chucker starter kit from RCBS and a few extras for just under three hundred. I am a RCBS fan under most conditions since their customer service to great and their products are guaranteed for live. However, two hundred is less than three hundred and the dies are certainly worth something as long as they're not beat up.

Subject: Re: $ Question for you reloaders From: Ted To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:38:36 (EST) Email Address: hines@peoplepc.com Message: Midway is selling rockcrusher presses for 73$ this month and the lee dies I use are 22$ a set for carbides. FWIW

Subject: Re: $ Question for you reloaders From: goatracemitch To: Ted Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 19:16:09 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ted's right...RCBS is a terrific company and I find their stuff a pleasure to use. When one of their customer service gals started talking to me about the ogive of the bullet, I fell in love...You'd want their rockcrusher especially if you got into case forming but their Partner is a light duty press for about forty five bucks that is perfectly fine for the calibers you mentioned and it allows you to prime on the press which saves you the cost of a priming arm etc. Add three Lee dies and you're at about a hundred bucks. Though RCBS dies are a work of art, I think.

Subject: Re: $ Question for you reloaders From: Rick C. To: goatracemitch Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 21:49:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: $ Question for you reloaders From: Disabilly To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 22:20:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Price is a little too high .RCBS,productes are quality equipment but imho you can order new from Midway rockcrusher and carbide dies and shell holders and a scale for about the same money. also a case trimmer would be handy. Have fun and be safe

Subject: My newest bestest buddy... From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 17:25:49 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Doesn't it just put a smile on your face when a new firearm exceeds your expectations? It does mine. If things continue the way they have, my Maks are going to start getting jealous. It's been a week since I took my new HS 2000 to the range for its inaugural performance, but this pistol makes me want to shoot it more often. As I was paying for my ammo at the local indoor range today, I took the HS out of the range bag and showed it to the range officer. I gave him the run-down of features, and provided him with a synopsis of last week's glowing range report. Being the only other soul there this morning, as I headed to stall No. 10 I knew he'd be looking to see how it did ('yeah, watch it jam on the first round' I thought to myself as I walked away...). Fortunately, no such thing happened. But what did happen next was pretty cool. After loading up a mag, I sent the target out to 25ft, brought the front sight up for a 'point shoot' and pulled the trigger. Nothin' but black. I mean dead-solid-perfect-bullseye. I turned and looked at the range officer (of course he was watching) and shrugged my shoulders as if to say 'See? I told you.' Then I rapid fired the next four or five rounds. A Mel Gibson 'Lethal Weapon' smiley face would have been perfect in this situation, but I'll settle for the ragged hole that appeared, with just a couple straying outside of the black. Now, I wish I could say that it's my outstanding pistolero skills that gave such good results. I can't. Actually, it was just a bit of instinctive aiming, some luck, and a pistol that points quite naturally. And that's my main point here. The more I shoot it, the more I like the ergonomics of the HS. I don't find myself fumbling for a comfortable hold like I did with my S&W 6906, and I don't find myself searching for the front sight. And muzzle flip seems to be very minimal, as the pistol comes back on target quickly. It's no fun to struggle with a pistol. With the HS, it practically begs you to put more rounds through it. So I obliged. With over 200 rounds today. My final thoughts are that I hope everyone else is as pleased with theirs as I am with mine. I hope the quality control is consistent across the board, and I hope the longevity proves to be there. I don't know how long the price will stay this low (there was a time when that funny plastic pistol from Austria was relatively inexpensive), especially if the HS proves to be a popular pistol. It may not get into the same price range as its Western European counterparts, but if you're in the market for fine 9, I'd recommend gettin' one while the gettin's good. Take care all. Marko

Subject: Bestest Buddy featured at SOG... From: MickeyD To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 18:59:03 (EST) Email Address: mmixon@ev1.net Message: SOG's latest catalog has the HS 2000 9mm pistol for $249.95. They also add this guarantee: ''...if this pistol doesn't meet your standards, you can return it no questions asked! SATISFACTION GUARANTEED!'' It must be SOG's newest bestest buddy also. MickeyD ps I always thought Glocks and glock style pistols looked like water pistols, but I keep hearing you guys talk about them, and I almost want one now.

Subject: Re: This Weekend From: TENNESSEEAN To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:46:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Going to a show in Knoxville this weekend, If HS or Tenn Guns there going to try and get one and get some questions answered. You've got me convinced plus what I've read about them. TN

Subject: Re: My newest bestest buddy... From: TemptedByTupperware To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:25:22 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Finally saw one up close and personal. This is one nice looking pistol with enough safety features to satisfy Ralph Nader! I am tempted...sorely tempted. My price for the 9mm was $265 plus 8.25% tax. Dealer wanted me to wait for the 40 cal (and a 357 Sig also?). But heck, I get the 9mm stuff for free. I must resist...I must resist....I must resist

Subject: Re: My newest bestest buddy... From: PM To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:23:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'd guess that your shooting skills are a bigger factor than you admit, Marko. I seem to remember a pic of a used target that you posted a while back. It was a tight lil' group from your SE Arsenal, right? Keep 'em in the 10 range! Pat

Subject: PM: Thanks, but you've never seen... From: Marko To: PM Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 16:28:14 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Patman: Thanks for the compliment, but you've never seen all the targets that go into the range trash bin because I'm too embarassed for anyone to see them! ;) Take care. Marko

Subject: Where is GSP? Do they have a Web site? From: Felix Dzherzhinsky To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 17:20:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: thanks.

Subject: No web site - ((561) 272-9512 From: kraut To: Felix Dzherzhinsky Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:40:23 (EST) Email Address: glconing@yahoo.com Message: P.O. Box 476 Delray Beach, FL 33447 germanarms@aol.com

Subject: Opinions on LVE ammo? From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 16:39:54 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Went to the local indoor range today with an old friend (my Miltex SE), and my newest bestest buddy (my HS 2000). For the Mak, the range usually carries TCW (Wolf) or Barnaul. But today, the range officer instead handed me a green box of Russian LVE. Cool, I thought. First time I've used it... ...and I hated it. It was difficult to load into my mags, accuracy wasn't great, I had a couple of weak ignitions. Plus sparks (!) came out of the barrel. Also, the sparks occasionally blew back into my face. Pretty annoying. Did I just get a bad batch of ammo, or is the LVE stuff a dog? Thanks. Take care all. Marko

Subject: OK, but not awsome... From: PM To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 01:57:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I place Novosibirsk on par with Norinco. Not my favorite, not overly accurate, but reliable. When I pull the trigger, it's always gone ''BANG!!!''

Subject: Re: Opinions on LVE ammo? From: McPhil To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 01:20:51 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: I've shot a case of it up and do see some of the same things you do. Sparks out the barrel is a little unnerving sometimes, but that's what happens. It is dirty and not as accurate as some others, but for plinking and playing at the range it is fine. The Barnaul JHP's spark too. I mostly shoot indoors, so I see it too. McPhil

Subject: Re: Opinions on LVE ammo? From: BRS To: Marko Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 00:12:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko: My experience with LVE in 9x18 is limited to about 2400 rounds at this point, all shot in daylight outdoors. I find it to be about 1018 to 1032 fps, and I haven't noticed the 'sparks' (I usually concentrate on the target). Accuracy at 25 meters is about 2' to 3' using Weaver hold. Hits on soda cans at 25 meters is 90% or better. Now the down side: It is filthy. A brownish black residue builds up quickly, but doesn't seem to impair functionality. I found the copper plated cases to insert fairly easy in my mags, but no steel case enters a mag as easily as a brass one, IMO. And as far as cleaning the weapon, what Dad taught me was reinforced vigorously by the Gunny. I found that the Barnaul HP shoots pretty much POA with the LVE ball. Don't give up. BRS

Subject: Re: Opinions on LVE ammo? From: MickeyD To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 21:59:26 (EST) Email Address: mmixon@ev1.net Message: I don't like LVE because it doesn't seem to be as hot a load as Wolfe.(at least judged by the recoil) I would like to blame it on the ammo, but I haven't noticed any difference in my ''accuracy'' (and I use that term loosely) in the LVE and the Wolfe. But talking about SPARKS!!! If you want sparks, just shoot some of that new hollow point ammo. It makes the end of my gun look like a Christmas party!! I was out about dusk, and when I tried the hp ammo for the first time, I was thinking ''Gee that's pretty...ooooo I hope that's not part of my barrel sparking out the end of my gun!'' MickeyD

Subject: Re: Opinions on LVE ammo? From: arcom To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:16:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Bought some for a Russkie M44 carbine. Rough cycling..thought it was the rifle...tried some milsurp Romanian stuff...slick as snot. Also, a poster at Tucos said the 7.62x54R Mosin stuff was DEFINITELY corrosive in spite of what the box said. Don't know about the handgun ammo.

Subject: Re: Opinions on LVE ammo? From: Mike To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:15:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I hope it isnt bad i just bought a half case of it..I will let you know how i made out.. Mike

Subject: Re: Opinions on LVE ammo? From: RonD To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:31:03 (EST) Email Address: rkdenzer@worldnet.att.net Message: I have had good results with LVE Russian ammo, am on my 2nd case. Ammo can vary from lot to lot, but still shouldn't be as bad as what you got.

Subject: Where to get & $ for PA-63 From: Bret To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:20:40 (EST) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: Where can I get an excellent or new condition PA-63 and what is the price. Thanks in advance. - Bret 216.25.120.68/February/Pa63duo.jpg

Subject: Re: Where to get & $ for PA-63 From: Kev To: Bret Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 23:37:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I picked up mine on Thurs. from S.O.G. $90.00 plus shipping

Subject: $119 from Ed Yeager From: Rev Rob To: Bret Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:07:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ed gets my highest rating and this looks like what your looking for. http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?item=921575

Subject: Re: Where to get & $ for PA-63 From: Rik To: Bret Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:38:13 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: as far as online goes, have you tried auctionarms.com?

Subject: Re: Where to get & $ for PA-63 From: RonD To: Rik Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:35:17 (EST) Email Address: rkdenzer@worldnet.att.net Message: In the SOG flyer, $99 two-tone, $89 all blue.

Subject: ? for Marko on gun finish From: S. Allen To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:17:20 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko, I love the military green finish on the Mak you posted below and I have a few questions about your finish. First...is that parkerization or some sort of paint job? I saw a Glock 17 at a gunshow once that had a green finish about the color of your Mak and after looking closely at it and feeling it, it felt like parkerization and was definately not bluing or paint. I never found the owner, but talked to a couple of his friends at the table and neither knew how he got that finish. I don't know if I want to do this to my Maks, but I definately want to green the slide on my hot-rodded Glock 17. It looks striking, next to the black polymer frame. Is it expensive? Is it durable? Rust resistant? Phosphate or parkerization? Did you send it away somewhere to have that done? Is it difficult to send pistols through the mail to have this kind of work done to them? What if I am only sending the slide? Please, enlighten all of us on how you got that beautiful finish. It is a very cool finish and reminds me of that grey-green parkerization you sometimes see on WWII 1911 pistols and 03-A3 Springfields. Thanks, -SA

Subject: Re: ? for Marko on gun finish From: PM To: S. Allen Date Posted: Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 02:12:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just tryin' to clear your shipping ??? up. A slide would ship Easy. A pistol MUST be declared a handgun, to the shipper, and Mac prefers FedEx. I don't remember what the shipping/insurance cost was, but it wasn't too bad at all. Mac will clear this up for you with an email. He will reply, too! Just the kinda' guy he is.

Subject: Wish it were my gun... From: Marko To: S. Allen Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 16:10:51 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hi SA, how've you been? As for the green Mak, I wish it were mine. I just posted the picture for Rik, another regular contributor to this board. Hopefully, he'll weigh in with some additional info on his pistol. But what I can tell you is that the pistol was refinished with GunKote (a very tough, self-lubricating, corrosion resistant finish) by Mac's Shootin' Iron Resorations. Mac has a well deserved reputation on this board for doing first-class work. For about $100, he completely strips the pistol and GunKotes every piece (including one magazine) except for springs. He also polishes the ramps, hand laps the slide rails, and dots the sights. He'll even do the pistol in two-tone. Turn-around time is consistently around two weeks. For more info, here's the URL for his website (be sure to tell him you heard about him on Makarov.com -- he treats us right): http://www.shootiniron.com By the way, his current special is any bolt-action rifle in OD green for $110. If you want the stock refinished with Stock-Kote, it's only $122.50 (return shipping included). Take care. Marko

Subject: Wish it were my gun... From: Marko To: S. Allen Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 16:08:07 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hi SA, how've you been? As for the green Mak, I wish it were mine. I just posted the picture for Rik, another regular contributor to this board. Hopefully, he'll weigh in with some additional info on his pistol. But what I can tell you is that the pistol was refinished with GunKote (a very tough, self-lubricating, corrosion resistant finish) by Mac's Shootin' Iron Resorations. Mac has a well deserved reputation on this board for doing first-class work. For about $100, he completely strips the pistol and GunKotes every piece (including one magazine) except for springs. He also polishes the ramps, hand laps the slide rails, and dots the sights. He'll even do the pistol in two-tone. Turn-around time is consistently around two weeks. For more info, here's the URL for his website (be sure to tell him you heard about him on Makarov.com -- he treats us right): http://www.shootiniron.com By the way, his current special is any bolt-action rifle in OD green for $99 (including return shipping). Take care. Marko

Subject: Ignore 16:08:07 post From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 16:21:17 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Please ignore the message I posted at 16:08:07 (EST). I thought I caught it before it was sent, but I guess not. The bolt action rifle price of $99 is incorrect. It should be $110. Thanks. Take care. Marko

Subject: MAKAROV RUSSIAN IJ-70 From: INAFFIT To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 03:05:01 (EST) Email Address: IANFFIT@AOL.COM Message: MY EX HUBBY WAS A GUN ENTHUTHIAAST...NOW I AM!! I NEED TO KNOW THE GOING PRICE OF A 'MAKAROV IJ70-18A' THANKS! INAFFIT

Subject: MAKAROV RUSSIAN IJ-70 From: AZGunslinger To: INAFFIT Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 17:32:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Say Hun you done have to holler at us we here ya. The other Makarovs are as good as the Russian version. Is this a gun you want or one you are thinking about selling now that you have it from the EX? Any where prices are from 150 to 250.

Subject: Re: MAKAROV RUSSIAN IJ-70 From: ScoutnStAugustine To: INAFFIT Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:17:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It may depend a little on where you are, but I'm seeing then here in Florida, at gun shows, pawn shops, dealers, etc. for anywhere from $160.00 to $240.00. Read up some in this mess. board and you'll get a good idea of prices. Oh...'EX HUBBY WAS A GUN ENTHUTHIAAST...NOW I AM!!' Is that something like, 'when all was said and done, I got the gun??' Good luck in your search for a great pistol.

Subject: Re: MAKAROV RUSSIAN IJ-70 From: Rev Rob To: INAFFIT Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:15:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Satin or Blued finish. There is a beat up blued one at auction for $150 and a nice Satin like my Batasha goes for about $250. Then there is the Hi Capacity model IJ70-18H which is probably somewhere inbetween. Hope this helped Rev Rob

Subject: Re: MAKAROV RUSSIAN IJ-70 From: Kevin To: INAFFIT Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 08:42:13 (EST) Email Address: kch105@hotmail.com Message: From what I have seen, about $185 to $225. Check at the auction sites - they might have something.

Subject: CZ 52 From: Ron Becker To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 00:32:38 (EST) Email Address: reb2000@earthlink.net Message: Hello The problem with the slide slamming homw when the mag was released was due to a weak mag spring, and the drift pin was a little loose on the bar. The problem is now solved. Next question has anyone tried the slide release that is sold at Makarov? I am curious if this will work and let the slide slam home with the release button like my CZ 75. Thank You Ron

Subject: Rik-BEAST question... From: PM To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:48:22 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: As you can see, I removed Quite a bit of the front sight to get the impact @ point of aim, looks yours is the stock highth. I put this slide on 4 different pistols when the front sight was stock, and it shot way low on all of them. Did yours shoot low? That last pic of your Green Mak convinced me to have my Blackhawk done in green! albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=953900&a=6979030&p=39817554&Sequence=0&res=high

Subject: BEAST slide... From: Rik To: PM Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:04:21 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: As you can see, I removed Quite a bit of the front sight to get the impact @ point of aim, looks yours is the stock highth. I put this slide on 4 different pistols when the front sight was stock, and it shot way low on all of them. Did yours shoot low? That last pic of your Green Mak convinced me to have my Blackhawk done in green! --- I originally had to take down just a tad of the front sight, it lined-up nicely and im still dancing coke cans across the back yard with it. im not sure if i got lucky with my slide (Mac did realign it when i first purchased it) but i dont seem to recall anyone having serious problems with them...lets ask Marko or SlimTim!

Subject: PICTURES From: TENNESSEEAN To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:33:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Man Y'all gettin slickern fried lard at postin pictures. TN

Subject: Posting pics! Pride's swellin' like... From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:17:44 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Wow, everyone's successfully posting pictures. With a nod toward Tennessean... My pride's swellin' faster than an un-open ca n of beans in a campfire. Okay, okay, I promise. No more Tennesseanisms. Besides, he does them much better than me. ;) Take care. Marko

Subject: Photo posting test - here i go, Marko From: Rik To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:15:10 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: well, here goes... if image comes out, this is the pic i was referencing to PM on an earlier post about taking down some metal on an overhanging BEAST slide. www.geocities.com/rv32898/mvc-011f.jpg

Subject: WOW!! ntxt From: Carlos Z To: Rik Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 00:01:09 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: RUKO Import Inscription Pic From: BRS To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:55:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks again to all who replied to my post last Sunday regarding the RUKO import markings. These were obviously imported seven or eight years ago, and I had not seen them then and came across this one only last week. Picture attached (hopefully)for those variation-challenged Makniks like me. BRS albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1502118&a=11335808&p=39807959

Subject: Re: RUKO Import Inscription Pic From: PM To: BRS Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:20:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My EG, which was also imported by RUKO, has acid-etched text, instead of the stamped text, like yours.

Subject: Pix post instruction by Marko . . . From: BRS To: BRS Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:59:50 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: . . . for which I thank you very much, Comrade Marko! BRS

Subject: BRS: No thanks necessary (ntxt) From: Marko To: BRS Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:51:38 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: nt

Subject: 'Nother Mac's Mak From: PM To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:14:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Not a good picture, but the black/gray two tone is great! I've got a Beast slide to put on this one, as soon as I have time to set the sights, I'll send it to Mac, and let him gun-kote it. Thinking about having my Hi-Cap done all Black. albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=953900&a=6979030&p=25195837&Sequence=0&res=high

Subject: Re: 'Nother Mac's Mak From: Rik To: PM Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:59:06 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: dont be surprised if you find that BEAST slide hangs over just a tad on the aft part of the frame youre putting it on. mine did (considerably), but Mac took it down and matched it perfectly with the frame. i think you can see the detail enough in one of the pics i posted at the geocities web page i referenced earlier. if not let me know and i will send you one directly to your email.

Subject: Yeah, it does overhang, Rik... From: PM To: Rik Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:17:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've already got one on my IJ70 Hi-Cap, and it overhangs almost an eighth inch. Actually, both my BEAST slides overhang on every one of my Maks. EG, Russians, and Bulgies. (Arsenals, and a circle 10) I'll have Mac mill mine down, too. Your Mak project turned out SWEET, Rik!!!

Subject: Score!! Great Deal On Miltex SE From: OneShot To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 19:47:24 (EST) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: Just had to tell you all about a great acquisition today. I'm still feeling the 'buzz'..you konw the adrenaline rush you get when you made a great buy. Not too long ago, around last Oct. a friend (who happends to be the dealer who does my non-C&R transfers for me) mentioned a fellow she know who had and 'odd Makarov' he wanted to sell reasonably. She knew I like Maks so This was right before my wedding so I didn't pay much attention figuring it was probably just a Bulgie or EG. Now just a few days ago, something was tickling the back of my mind..I think it was the posts about Miltex 'Special Editions' that did it. So I decided to call her and see if it was still for sale, and it was and did I want to look at it?... Later that afternoon, I'm opening the box and Son of a F#*king B1*ch if it isn't a Miltex Special Edition! All high-polish blue finish-no chrome at all( havent heard of a lot of those), squared trigger guard, 'Makarov,Special Edition, stylized Arsenal, cal 9x17, and Made in Bulgaria' on one side of slide and the Maryland address onthe other. You know know how hard it is to hold down a grin when you trying to downplay how much you want a gun?..I'll bet most of you do..talk about poker face. It was all I could do to keep the grin off my face as I say 'Well..it's kinda a neat little Mak. Not really my caliber..I shoot 9x18 not .380. Uh well I dunno.. I got ___ in cash with me. Think that'll do it?' A damn if she didn't go for it. I won't rub it in but I think it was a VERY good deal. It's cold here in Indiana but I still had to roll the window down on the way home just to cool off! Anyways, I'll try to get some pics for you all if you'd like. Also, it is true that all the Makarovs I own are all only in 9x18. I really don't have any interest in a .380 pistol. so, I'm sure if I'll keep it. But, hey I couldn't let this little bugger languish someplace where it wasn't apprecaited by a Mak afficianado could I?

Subject: So kind of you to rescue it... From: Mark To: OneShot Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 00:50:08 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: OneShot: Congrats on the Miltex aquisition. How kind of you to rescue it from an unappreciative environment ;) If you get a chance, try to post some pics. I've never seen a blued SE in person, and I've yet to see a really good picture of one either. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Score!! Great Deal On Miltex SE From: PM To: OneShot Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 20:56:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I know that feeling. Like I'm 8 years old, again, and it's Christmas morning! BTW-What part of IN you call home? I'm up here in Fighting Irish land.

Subject: Re: Score!! Great Deal On Miltex SE From: Markus To: OneShot Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 19:55:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Fill in the blank(how much?) if you really want to see me drool! or as Tn would say: Foam at the mouth like a houndog chewing on a Toad.

Subject: Re: Score!! Great Deal On Miltex SE From: TENNESSEEAN To: Markus Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:02:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Good find, I been kinda keeping my eye out for one. Maarkus I'd say that ol boy was grinnin like a possum chewin on new corn. TN

Subject: Stop it! You're killin' me... From: Marko To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:29:18 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: TN: You're slaying me with those sayings. Keep it up and I might start referring to you as Bodine (as in Jethro Bodine of the Beverly Hillbilly's -- he always had sayings like that). Marko

Subject: Not only that, but... From: PM To: Marko Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 00:21:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: TN's sayings are getting me geared up for the Daytona 500! I picture another fine Tennessean, named Sterling Marlin, when I read TN's posts!

Subject: Re: Stop it! You're killin' me... From: Markus To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:02:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko, don't you think Tn's sayings are 'Gooder than Grits!'

Subject: OT: Polish TT33's From: OneShot To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 18:59:38 (EST) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: Hey gang! Just got my new catalog from SOG. New shipment of POLISH TT33 Tokarev pistols with serial numbered mags..very cool. Might have to keep the Ruskie company. One odd thing...they are manufactured from 52-56 when I called I was informed the aren't C&R. Yet EG Maks are fromt he 60's and are. Any ideas?

Subject: Do they have the bogus added safety? From: Felix Dzherzhinsky To: OneShot Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:38:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: How much are they? From: Rev Rob To: OneShot Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:06:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Price/Safety From: OneShot To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:24:07 (EST) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: Give ya the quick run down they are advertised as Excellent/like new condition. Inthe ad text it doesnt mention a safety but there is a photo. In the photo it doesnt have the weenie safety where the Chi/Russian TTs had them above the rear grip. But, it does appear to have them just in front of the grip..If the triggeris the clock face, hen it's at 2 o'clock. Weird, but may be functionally OK consedering it's right where the thumb is. the shooter wouldn't have to change grip at all. Now the best part (which makes the safety feel better)..Price is $169 with matching serialized magazine.. $189 with TWO matching mags. Manufacturing dates of 1952-56 I'm ordering one today.

Subject: Re: Price/Safety From: Rev Rob To: OneShot Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:07:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Are they C&R? Rob

Subject: ammo safety From: Ted To: OneShot Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:48:22 (EST) Email Address: hines@peoplepc.com Message: would it be safe to shoot S&B 7.62x25 through these? I like the idea of having another gun in this caliber to keep my cz-52 company but the S&B stuff is fairly hot.

Subject: Re: ammo safety From: OneShot To: Ted Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 20:59:01 (EST) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: would it be safe to shoot S&B 7.62x25 through these? I like the idea of having another gun in this caliber to keep my cz-52 company but the S&B stuff is fairly hot. --- As far as being C&R..no they're not. Son't ask me why. they are made 52-56 and aren't while EG Maks from the 60's are. this is uncomfirmed as I havne't asked the BATF. It's moot though, only one distributor has 'em and very very few were ever made so I think this is probably all there will ever be. As far as ammo goes, I think S&Bwill be fine. I shoot S&B in my Soviet TT33 and it's nowhere near excellent to like new condition. No problems. Plus the Poles have a reputation of making VERY good quality weapons. If you think S&B 7.62x25 is hot..you should try some of my handloads for the CZ. I'm still waiting for my eyebrows to grow back!

Subject: MSW and Pussball From: mick-dawg To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 16:47:43 (EST) Email Address: mick-dawg@juno.com Message: Hey guys, Let's talk about the next time to get together at WSI. New people are also invited. Let's keep in touch. mick

Subject: Re: MSW and Pussball From: Pussball To: mick-dawg Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:27:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mick-Dawg, I'm looking forward to our next Mad Maks get together. However, this weekend may not be good for me since I plan on going to the WAC gun show down at The Puyallup. I really need to stock up on ammo, CZ-52 ammo in particular since I plan on bringing that baby to the next session. Maybe the following Saturday - 2/10?

Subject: Re: MSW and Pussball From: mick-dawg To: Pussball Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:50:58 (EST) Email Address: mick-dawg@juno.com Message: Hey Pussball, Thnanks for reminding me of that gun show. My buddy and I were wondering when and where the next show would be. As for the dates you mentioned, I believe I am open too. I'll try to get a hold of MSW. Blessings. mick

Subject: PA-63 Grips From: Kev To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 16:13:24 (EST) Email Address: kevin@nmo.net Message: Help! I'm A left hand shooter and just bought a PA-63 and the thumb rest grips won't make it. Does anybody know were I can get replacements??

Subject: C+R Page From: CC Coleman To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:11:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/frames.html This may not take you there but there is a curio and relics page.

Subject: rear site From: adam To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 10:37:35 (EST) Email Address: adam@zazzera.com Message: on the makarov home page under pictures of the makaroves the first one has wood grips with thumb rest, were can I get?

Subject: OT, CZ Board? From: Beavo To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:00:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm looking for the CZ board. I thought I found the URL here originally but could be mistaken. TIA

Subject: Here... From: Brother Mak To: all Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:17:15 (EST) Email Address: brothermak67@hotmail.com Message: Try here. http://www.unitedforums.com/cgi-bin/czfcgi//forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=CZ+Semiauto+Pistols&number=6&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=

Subject: Re: OT, CZ Board? From: John To: Beavo Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:40:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm looking for the CZ board. I thought I found the URL here originally but could be mistaken. TIA --- Try here www.gunandgame.com/cgi-bin/boards/czechconfig.pl

Subject: Re: OT, CZ Board? From: FHK To: Beavo Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:38:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://www.gunandgame.com/cgi-bin/boards/czechconfig.pl

Subject: Got it Thanks! From: Beavo To: FHK Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 23:15:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Can anyone identify this? (pic) From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 03:21:21 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: What pistol is this? Thanks. Marko 216.25.120.68/january/walt.jpg

Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this? (pic) From: TENNESSEEAN To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:07:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Didn't get a shot at it earlier but are you sure about the caliber, They did chamber some in reg 9x18. If it's a 9x18 police its a pp super. TN

Subject: Well ain't my face redder than a... From: Marko To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:47:40 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: TN: Well ain't my face redder than a no-armed man eatin' cherry cobbler? I didn't know it was also chambered for 9x18 Mak. How unusual would you say this pistol is? Thanks. Take care. Marko

Subject: SgtMaj13 and Bret are correct From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:55:09 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: As SgtMaj13 and Bret have indicated, the pistol is a Walther PP variation. It's currently for sale at Auction Arms at the following URL (current bid is $149): http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1023800 However, it is misidentified as being chambered for 9x18 Makarov, instead of 9x18 Police. Take care. Marko

Subject: What? I get no credit? From: sopwith21@hotmail.com To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 15:59:05 (EST) Email Address: stephen Message: Oh, c'mon!! I said it might be one of those Mannhurin-thing-a-muh-bobs! Doesn't that put me in the 'Look At Him! He's Smart!' category, too?

Subject: Technically, it's not a thing-a-muh-bob From: Marko To: sopwith21@hotmail.com Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 17:01:33 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Oh, c'mon!! I said it might be one of those Mannhurin-thing-a-muh-bobs! Doesn't that put me in the 'Look At Him! He's Smart!' category, too? --- Stephen: I believe the Mannhurin 'thing-a-muh-bob' was a protype chambered for .32 H&R Magnum. The one in the picture was actually designated the 'what-cha-muh-callit'. Does that clear things up? ;) Take care. Marko

Subject: Walther P-5? What caliber is it? From: Pilot To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:40:46 (EST) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message:

Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this? (pic) From: SgtMaj13 To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 10:56:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I believe it's a Walther Super PP in 9mm Ultra that was used by one of the West German State Police Agency's. Semper Fi

Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this? (pic) From: Bret To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 10:44:54 (EST) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: It's a Walther in 9x18. However, the cartridge is 9x18 Police, not 9x18 Makarov! I don't know the name of the pistol. - Bret

Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this? (pic) From: Shayne To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 10:34:06 (EST) Email Address: derspiess@hotmail.com Message: My guess is that it's that Polish pistol, the name of which escapes me, that was somewhat designed after the Makarov. Shayne

Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this? (pic) From: stephen To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:22:38 (EST) Email Address: sopwith21@hotmail.com Message: My completely uneducated guess is one of those Walther-copy Mannhurin French doodads. Late production model in 7.65 mm.

Subject: Oh no! Prices going WAY up on EGs From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:56:22 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Gee whiz. The $99 East German Mak sale at GSP is hardly over and already the prices are dramatically climbing (Marko plants tongue firmly in cheek). No, the prices aren't already climbing (yet?), it's just that I saw something on GunBroker that makes me shake my head with amazement. Check out the link and take a look at the 'deal' on the '97% plus-plus' East German Mak. Then take a look at the 'bargain' price if no one bids on the pistol. Some folks really have some major brass ones... Man, I hope some sucker doesn't part with his hard-earned cash for this. Take care. Marko

Subject: Current prices of GSP EG Maks now ?? From: Bric To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 21:54:47 (EST) Email Address: brio71@twd.net Message: What has he raised the price to?? They used to be $99 ea. if ya bought 2. What do they sell a single for?? TIA Bric

Subject: Re: Current prices of GSP EG Maks now ?? From: TENNESSEEAN To: Bric Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:11:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Still the same price for a couple more weeks. TN

Subject: Marketing/Retailing Tactic remembered From: MickeyD To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:59:33 (EST) Email Address: mmixon@ev1.net Message: I agree, this guy is really trying to rip someone, but as someone said, ''A fool and his money are soon parted.'' Back in the early 90's, I owned a jewelry store in a local mall. Purchased some inexpensive earrings for a special promotion. Put them out for $4.99 each or 3 for $10. Sold very few. I took them off sale for a week, repriced them at $10 each or 3 for $19.99 and sold out! My customers perceived the sub-$5 price point earrings as cheap and poor quality. The same thing could apply to guns. I have a friend that wouldn't buy a Bulgarian Mak because they were $149 (it was a year ago). His comment was ''All those cheap, junk guns...Saturday Night Specials, are under $200, so these must be cheap Russian junk too! At that price, they will probably blow up when you shoot them!' If they had sold for $350 as the quality and reliability would indicate, he would have bought one. I quit trying to figure out why people buy the things they buy at the prices they pay, but I'm sure there is some sucker out there that will be willing to pay more, ''because if it costs more, it must be better.'' Go figure. MickeyD

Subject: Duh! The URL would help... From: Marko To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 03:00:35 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Gee whiz. The $99 East German Mak sale at GSP is hardly over and already the prices are dramatically climbing (Marko plants tongue firmly in cheek). No, the prices aren't already climbing (yet?), it's just that I saw something on GunBroker that makes me shake my head with amazement. Check out the link and take a look at the 'deal' on the '97% plus-plus' East German Mak. Then take a look at the 'bargain' price if no one bids on the pistol. Some folks really have some major brass ones... Man, I hope some sucker doesn't part with his hard-earned cash for this. Take care. Marko --- Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear ya. I know how to post pics, but I could use some tips on attaching links, right? Anyway, here's the URL for the auction: http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?item=920734 Take care. Marko

Subject: I've been waiting for one! From: Brother Mak To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:05:02 (EST) Email Address: brothermak67@hotmail.com Message: Wow, I better hop on that one ASAP. You never know when another 97% EG mak will be available. Thanks for the heads-up Marko! ok..ok... seriously. Don't you wish there was a combo message board/auction site so we could shoot down crooks like this? I'm might book mark it and email the poor sap who actually bids on this and set him straight.If anyone bids, that is. :) ~BM

Subject: Re: I've been waiting for one! From: Bill To: Brother Mak Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 07:58:27 (EST) Email Address: salaw00@yahoo.com Message: It must have LOTS of extra mags!

Subject: Photo Posting Tip From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:10:16 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hey folks. Lately we're having some difficulty posting pics. I think there's a common mistake causing most of the trouble: When trying to determine your photo's URL address, do not use the one shown in the 'address' window at the top of your browser. Instead, once you've selected the photo you want to publish, right-click on the photo and choose 'Properties'. Then, in the window that pops up, use the URL listed in the 'address' field. Hope this helps. Take care all. Marko

Subject: Pic: Close-up of '40 Years' slide From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:45:14 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Close-up of slide on ScoutnStAugustine's '40 Years of Makarov' Mak. albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1495664&a=11318795&p=39727842&Sequence=0

Subject: Re: Pic: Close-up of '40 Years' slide From: vlad To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 20:19:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Close-up of slide on ScoutnStAugustine's '40 Years of Makarov' Mak. --- Interesting to mention that non american market universary eddition looks different by finish. I do not remember for sure what was univesary number, but I think it was 50. I saw it several month ago. It was more polished version similar to russian military and EG makarovs. Obviously no Big Bear arms sign and ingraving is much better made with gold lettering etc. Also considering this was imported in 1993 it makes one think makarovs were produced since 1953. I would seriously question that date. It looks like those were produced for US market to make those greater values edittions for not suspecting american folks.

Subject: Re: Pic: Close-up of '40 Years' slide From: Tmarie To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 07:25:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks Marko!

Subject: Re: Pic: Close-up of '40 Years' slide From: johnrobe To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:40:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: nice closeup! Big Bear Arms happens to be where I picked up my CZ 75. Unlike most gun dealers, they were very familiar with Eastern European arms and seemed genuinely pleased when I walked in asking about a CZ rather than a Glock, Sig, etc., etc. The guy I talked to even had a heavy accent like Arnold Schwarzenneger.

Subject: Re: Pic: Close-up of '40 Years' slide From: johnrobe To: johnrobe Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:44:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I know, I know Glock is Austrian and Sig is Swiss. But you know what I meant, the CZ doesn't have a fraction of the name recognition in the U.S. Just pre-empting a flame. :)

Subject: Pic: ScoutnStAugustine's Mak From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:42:12 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Here's a pic of his '40 Years of Makarov' Mak. albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1495664&a=11318795&p=39727847&Sequence=0

Subject: Re: Pic: ScoutnStAugustine's Mak From: ScoutnStAugustine To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 19:37:17 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks for posting my gun's pic Marko. Anyone know what the engravings translate to in terms of value?? It's obvious that this weapon has never been shot, and it came in the box. I ain't shooting it anyway though. Oh, and if it ever DID come down to a choice between Tina and my Maks...well, the guns would have to go...but I'd keep you guys in mind as possible buyers. :)

Subject: Very welcome (ntxt) From: Marko To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 22:49:51 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: nt

Subject: Pic: Arcom's Mak by Mac From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:37:13 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnel Message: Arcom's Mak. Marko albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1413774&a=10573685&p=39718596&Sequence=0

Subject: Rik--Two years later............. From: arcom To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:26:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: after almost daily totting and maybe 1500 rounds, this is how Mac's work holds up. I like the green color as well. albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1413774&a=10573685&p=39718596

Subject: Maybe this will work From: arcom To: arcom Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:30:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1413774&a=10573685&p=39718596

Subject: Re: Maybe this will work From: Rik To: arcom Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 14:35:28 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: sorry, arcom...i didnt get the pic yet. how is the craftmanship holding up?

Subject: Try this........ From: arcom To: Rik Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 16:00:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: After 2 years I remain Mac's biggest fan. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1413774&a=10573757&p=39718596

Subject: Just mailed my C&R application! From: Rob To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:27:41 (EST) Email Address: houndawg3@aol.com Message: Threw it in the mailbox at the Post Office at 2225 CST on 01/31/01. Mark the date. Let's see how long it takes. Rob

Subject: Time to beat From: Rev Rob To: Rob Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 09:04:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mint took 1 month and 1 day, including both Christmas and New Years holidays. Rev Rob

Subject: A Pic of 1 Trick Mak by Rik From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:07:25 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: For those of us too lazy to go to Rik's webpage, I took the liberty of posting one of the pics of his customized Mak. Hope he doesn't mind... Marko www.geocities.com/rv32898/mvc-004f.jpg

Subject: Re: A Pic of 1 Trick Mak by Rik From: CC Coleman To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:16:20 (EST) Email Address: exexpat93@aol.com Message: Dude, your gun is green! What do you call it? The Green Hornet? Is that GunKote? Ported extended barrel. There is even green stuff down the barrel! What inspired you to go with Earthtones? LOL!

Subject: Thanks! ( NT ) From: Rik To: Marko Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 00:17:35 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message:

Subject: My EG Mak project pics (finished!) From: Rik To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:39:03 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: well, i tried last night to post the pics...sorry it didnt work out but i got it right this time. i think. anyways, you will have to go to www.geocities.com/rv32898/RiksEGmakarov.html to get a good look at a few i put up onto a cheesy yahoo web-page. i originally emailed a couple of you before i started re-building the mak and was toying with the idea of having Gary at Tooltech install the trijicon night sights onto the slide. maybe someday on a similar project i will get them put on, but for now, the $275.00 price tag (not including shipping) is a bit steep for me. like i said, maybe next time! well, thanks for all the advice i received from some of you in helping me complete this. www.geocities.com/rv32898/RiksEGmakarov.html

Subject: How much? From: Rev Rob To: Rik Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 09:09:17 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Nice! How much did the Moly-disulfide coating cost and what is his contact info? Rev Rob

Subject: rev rob-here's macs email address... From: Rik To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 14:33:26 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: Nice! How much did the Moly-disulfide coating cost and what is his contact info? Rev Rob --- Mac can be contacted at shootiniron@msn.com he is an incredibly diligent professional when it comes to getting the job done right...wow, i know that it sounds like i own stock in the company but what can i say, you would have to see the work to appreciate it. he threw in the two tone option and ramp polishing (and all the other extra mags...etc) for about $100.00. he's really good people to work with. does all kinds of custom work.

Subject: What Rik didn't say From: PM To: Rik Date Posted: Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 18:31:30 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yep, the work's second to none, but I was impressed with getting mine back the day that Mac said he'd have it done! He turned mine in 2 weeks!

Subject: Try it again From: Tmarie To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:38:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1495664&a=11318795

Subject: Pics-ScoutnStAugustine's new prize From: Tmarie To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:32:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Here's the 3rd addition to the family. He's very taken with these guns. Just hope for my sake he never has to choose between me and the MAKS!!! albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1495664&a=11318795

Subject: GSP From: TENNESSEEAN To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 21:28:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I picked up here or another board that GSPs eg sale ended today, called Richard this morning. He was surprised to hear that, said he had enough so that at the rate they're selling he has about a 2 week supply. Asked him about the rummor of the supply drying up said there were no more available at this time and didn't know when any would be. So there is probably some truth in the rummors but remember last year this time you couldn't find a CZ-52 anywhere so I believe if I was looking for a nice eg at a good price right now I'd be calling. And yes I had him send me some more just in case. TN

Subject: Re: GSP From: McPhil To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:18:18 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: I got an e-mail from him mid-month saying the sale was over the 31st. Musta been a ploy to get to buy them up!!! McPhil

Subject: Re: GSP From: Twomill To: McPhil Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:16:02 (EST) Email Address: Twomillenium@aol.com Message: how do you get hold of GSP and what is the sale?

Subject: WTB:Mak near Richmond,va From: rob To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 17:23:00 (EST) Email Address: pgnighthawk@yahoo.com Message: i was wondering if anyone here was from the richmond,va area and knew of a dealer that has a good stock of makarovs. i have checked my local dealers but they have not had any in a while. i live about 30 min south of richmond,va. going through all the trouble of shipping a firearm seems a little silly with the low price that these guns seem to go for. thanks

Subject: Re: WTB:Mak near Richmond,va From: Cornelius To: rob Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:22:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: WTB:Mak near Richmond,va From: Flash To: rob Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:24:15 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Did you try Greentop? They aren't too far north of Richmond and usually have a good selection, but prises are often high. You'll want to call ahead first.

Subject: Hey, Still Waiting From: AAgunguy To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 15:42:26 (EST) Email Address: aagunguy@hotmail.com Message: I have an E.G. mak for sale if you are interested. E-mail me off list.

Subject: Mak Parts Kit - 10 Way Split (long) From: kraut To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 14:20:40 (EST) Email Address: glconing@yahoo.com Message: I am coordinating the ten way split of one of the $400.00 Century's Master Armorers Kits. If you are interested in participating, here is how it will work. You will need to let me know via email that you want in for a share and send me your email address, mailing addres, and phone number. I will let you know if you are one of the lucky nine (I'm keeping a share for myself). If you are, you will then have to send me a postal money order for $46.35 ( $6.35 is what priority mail will cost). You will receive one tenth of the following: 9X18 barrel 30 trigger bar with disconnector 25 barrel pin 30 sear 10 rear sight (standard) 30 sear spring 20 slide stop 30 hammer 20 recoil spring 40 hammer spring 25 extractor 50 hammer spring backed 20 extractor spring 50 grip 30 extractor spring plunger 50 grip screw fluted 30 safety complete 20 magazine complete 30 firing pin 30 follower 10 plunger trigger guard 10 magazine spring 50 spring trigger guard 30 sear with spring, complete 30 trigger 10 cleaning rod/screwdriver 180 I was too late for the last ten way split, so I'm going to ramrod this one. Please let me know ASAP if you want in. Thanks, kraut

Subject: Re: Mak Parts Kit - all gone From: kraut To: kraut Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:20:23 (EST) Email Address: glconing@yahoo.com Message: The response was fast and furious, all ten shares are gone. If anyone wants to go on a waiting list in case someone backs out, please email me (please put 'Waiting List' on the subject line). If a share becomes available, I will email you. Thanks to all who responded.

Subject: About the kits... From: Marko To: kraut Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 15:12:57 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: As many of you know, I got in on the previous kit split. And I'm here to tell you, for under $50 it's a true deal. I was just going through my kit a couple of nights ago. And except for the frame or slide, I've got virtually all the parts I'll ever need to repair my Maks. Also, I've now got three extra un-numbered (either unissued or rearsenaled?) mags, plus three new mag springs and some floorplates and a follower. Want to do a little amateur customizing? Now you won't have to trash your originals when you try to 'commanderize' a hammer, or dimple and dot a rear sight. And best of all, there are THREE new 9x18 barrels. Buy a barrel press and you can cheaply swap over from .380 to 9x18. One last thing: I don't know if this is true across the board, but the three red star bakelite grips I received are the three nicest ones I've ever seen. Virtually no bubbles or pockmoarks in the plastic. I hit the smooth surfaces with a dab of plastic polish and now they shine like brand new. I hope everyone who participates is as pleased with their hits as I am with mine. Now, what to do with those 15 cleaning rods... (I know --- tent stakes!) Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: About the kits... From: Lawpup To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 15:32:56 (EST) Email Address: michael@ev1.net Message: Hmmm....I don't have a cleaning rod. I'd sure like one.

Subject: Re: About the kits... From: TENNESSEEAN To: Lawpup Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:23:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Like Marko I got in on the last deal and you definately get your moneys worth. I cleaned em all up and filed them away all except the cleaning rods, been thinking about giving them as as birthday gifts etc. ain't too many non gun people know what they are anyhow. TN

Subject: It Was Worth It! From: CW To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:47:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I too got in on the previous deal, and wouldn't mind doing it again. I'm guessing that the parts were Bulgarian. Very nice! I'm thinking of useing the the spare cleaning rods for BBQ skewers! Ha ha! Let us know if there is enough people for a 20 way split! -Chris

Subject: East German Makarov's From: Brian To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 13:14:06 (EST) Email Address: chrrbruce@aol.com Message: I have one East German Makarov left for sale. It was made in 1962. Excellent condition. Comes with 2 mags,a shoulder holster and an extra set of grips. $210

Subject: CZ 52 misfires From: bktwang To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:23:34 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: A nice condition CZ52 has started misfiring 100% of the time using hot Czec ammo. I realize these are hard primers and at best only fire 75% on the first triggerpull. The firing pin is not broken or worn thatI can see, but there is no indent at all on the primers. The gun is clean. Could it be the ammo, but then why did itwork OK until recently. Any ideas?

Subject: Re: CZ 52 misfires From: McPhil To: bktwang Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 17:15:17 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Check to see if you broke your firing pin on a FTF. Arcoms right about trying some S&B, or anything else except for the Czech milsurp, to see if it is the pin. Chances are you broke your firing pin on the double strikes. McPhil

Subject: In a word....... From: arcom To: bktwang Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 13:34:15 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: AMMO Try some S&B and you'll see.

Subject: Speaking of firing pins... From: Flash To: arcom Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:32:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: How strong are the machined firing pins sold here at Makarov.com? Are they worth the price or should I buy a cheaper surplus pin? I never dry fire, so I have had no trouble with the original, but I'm thinking it would be nice to have an extra. Also, how difficult is it to replace the firing pin? Thanks in advance, Flash

Subject: Removing Cosmoline ? From: Mike To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:06:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Was wondering if anyone knew the best way to remove the cosmoline.I just got a Bulgarian Mak and its covered with cosmoline. Mike

Subject: Re: Removing Cosmoline ? From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Mike Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 15:19:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Here's what I did; it worked, but it was still alot of effort. Disassembled gun and mags, and covered in Kerosene overnight. This softened the cosmo, but didn't dissolve it. Then scrubbed gun in kerosene with brushes and pipe cleaners. Then hosed everything down with carburetor cleaner. Then final hose with gunscrubber; it leaves the gun perfectly dry. Except for some cosmo that still remained!!! Hoppes #9 seemed to take care of that. Seems like Hoppes worked better as a solvent than kero or carb cleaner; if you have a bunch, maybe try the overnight soak with Hoppes. After ALL the cosmo was removed, the gun sure did look nice and the action is great! I oiled heavily before the first range session. After shooting, I could still see some traces of cosmo that worked themselves free! Man, that is nasty stuff. I also polished my feedramp; it was very rough from the factory, allthough it would chamber rounds OK. Some day it might prevent a jam. Welcome to the club; the Mak is a sweet shooting gun, and I feel it is the equal (or better) of $400+ guns.

Subject: Re: Removing Cosmoline ? From: arcom To: Mike Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 13:39:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cheapest way.....toothbrush and paint thinner. Kerosene is also OK. Don't forget the firing pin and channel--pipe cleaners work well here.. Warming the pistol first helps. Dry and redo with clean toothbrush and gun solvent like Hoppes. Or make some of the home-brew cleaner/lube from the main site and use it exclusively. HTH

Subject: Re: Removing Cosmoline ? From: TENNESSEEAN To: arcom Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:31:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I like Gregs brew myself and I've cleaned several lately don't forget to clean the mags, take them apart cause they're full of it and will probably cause feeding prob. If you use gun scrub remember it removes all the oil, carb cleaner does leave a little lube but not much. Use the brew soak overnight brush and wipe down, blow it off with a air hose wipe it down again and use it. works great TN

Subject: Re: Removing Cosmoline ? From: pa To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:19:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I like Gregs brew myself and I've cleaned several lately don't forget to clean the mags, take them apart cause they're full of it and will probably cause feeding prob. If you use gun scrub remember it removes all the oil, carb cleaner does leave a little lube but not much. Use the brew soak overnight brush and wipe down, blow it off with a air hose wipe it down again and use it. works great TN --- All I ever use is 'Simple Green' and a toothbrush on my milsurp's wood or metal. Works well for me. Gets 'em squeaky clean. Also smells good and is easy on my hands.

Subject: Re; Phoenix Arms From: Guard88 To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:45:06 (EST) Email Address: Ralph@stateguard.i-p.com Message: Thanks to Marko and Rev Bob for the info on Phoenix. But when I called them they told me their wharehouse is only open to Dealers. Guess I'll catch at a gunshow. Please post any Philly area gunshows.

Subject: Philly area gun show From: RON in PA To: Guard88 Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:54:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The next big gun show in the Philly area will be at the Ft. Washington Expo Center on March 17th & 18th.

Subject: Re: Re; Phoenix Arms From: Stocky To: Guard88 Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:53:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Why don't you have your local dealer make the transaction for you? He'll charge around $20. Do-able? Stocky

Subject: Maybe Surplus City From: Marko To: Guard88 Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 13:33:49 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: You might also want to try Surplus City. I don't know the number, but I think they're affiliated with Phoenix. You could always call Phoenix back and ask them? Hope it works. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Maybe Surplus City From: Guard88 To: Marko Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 15:36:55 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Marko you are right ! Surplus City Phone: (215) 364-7130 Phoenix is owned by the guys brother

Subject: Some observations from a new MAK owner From: Buckeye To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 06:51:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: First off WOW! Brand new Bulgarian, holster, two mags and tool - out the door for $130. After I disssasembled it scrubbed the cosmoline off, I could appreciate the quality of actual machining. Even the bottom of the mags were machined, NOT stamped! Unbelievable - if these pistols were produced today they would cost several hundred dollars just in man hours. Pistol seems to be a great balance in size/concealabilty/pointability. A little heavy but I'll take a little extra weight to get steal vs. plastic. I actually have shot pistols with much poorer sights so that isn't a problem. On the down side, tooling is pretty rough in places. The mag. lips are very sharp, and even after some stoning, they still scratch up the brass. The double action pull is very heavy, but the single action pull isn't bad. Cosmetically, I think it is a very sharp looking pistol except for the cheesy thumb-rest grip AND my biggest complaint is that it looked like they scatched the import marks and caliber in the slide with a dull pocket knife. I'm going to bead blast and re-finish it w/ a baking lacquer, replace the grip, and the feed ramp is already polished. After the initial firing, I'm going to work on smoothing up the trigger. If this pistol is as reliable as you all report I'm going to be exceedingly happy, and I feel at this price everyone should have one. So if you've been hanging around here, like I was, and haven't got one yet - get on it. I really like this pistol.

Subject: Re: Some observations from a new owner From: PM To: Buckeye Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:40:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That DA trigger will get better after a few hundred rounds.

Subject: Re: Some observations From: J.R. Bob Dobbs To: Buckeye Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 09:22:33 (EST) Email Address: ka4tff@att.net Message: Agreed, the Mak is one finely made piece. Getting ALL of the Cosmo off was a real chore! My feedramp was as rough as a file, and would get copper residue on it from feeding jacketed bullets, but it fed fine anyway. I polished it, and oh what a difference! I figure someday that may save me from a failure, and it's definately easier to clean now. Otherwise, I'm in awe of how well made it is, especially considering the price. It should last forever. I also like the fact that its design 'looks like very old military stuff', with its oval ejection port, and dimpled top of slide. It is definately a product of pre-space age, and that is cool! My only concern is how well the blueing will hold up; I've only had one blued gun that didn't attract at least some rust. (A Thompson Contender, FYI, what a nice blue job). If it rusts, I'll get it chromed and it will be maintenance free, albiet somewhat cheezy. For now, I just wipe it with oil after handling, but I cannot keep that up forever. I just handle it too much! Oh yes, and I'm left handed, so the thumb rest had to go. I ground it down with a dremel, then sanded with 400, then 600 grit paper, then buffed area with polishing compound and dremel. Looks like it was never there.

Subject: Re: Some observations/grips From: Lawpup To: J.R. Bob Dobbs Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:45:12 (EST) Email Address: michael@ev1.net Message: I now have 4 East German Maks. I tried them with the thumb rest grips, the original EG grips, and finally put Pearce grips on all 4. Mind you, I have large hands, but it sure made shooting much more of a pleasure. They are inexpensive, usually around $15. You might want to consider them. Enjoy!

Subject: Another New Owner's Review From: Stephen To: Lawpup Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 18:43:36 (EST) Email Address: sopwith21@hotmail.com Message: I got both of my Bulgarians over the summer, and my other handguns are a Beretta Tomcat and an Interarms Walther PPK. Both Maks are infinately more reliable, and they have a smoother trigger action than the Beretta. I don't mind the heavy DA pull; to me its another safety. Speaking of safeties, the Maks is much better than the Walthers since it goes down to fire which is a more natural movement. SA pull is nice and short. Just right for me, since I don't like a fine hair trigger. I have done nothing to either Mak except remove the cosmoline, and I get about 1 jam per hundred rounds. I like the Pierce grips for target practice, and the EG black grips for daily carry since they are slimmer and have less of a profile in my shoulder holster, which, by the way, makes me look exactly like James Bond and twice as cool. On the down side, the Mak is just too heavy. My Walther is much better for profile and weight... if I could just get Interarms to send me one that goes 'bang' when I pull the trigger. How they could mess up such a fine, classic design is beyond me and must have taken a great deal of effort... but that's another story. I don't care about the Mak sights cause I'm a lousy shot anyway. I just need to make a lot of noise and look really mean and scare the bad guy away. And for those guys in black suits who burn churches and kidnap 6 yr olds, I have an SKS which is much better suited to the job. So the sights ain't no thang. Wise saying from me (you can use it some time if you like): There are better guns, and there are cheaper guns. But there is no better, cheaper gun than the Makarov. See? Wasn't that wise?

Subject: OT: Radom P64/P83 From: Bill To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:49:15 (EST) Email Address: salaw00@yahoo.com Message: Couldn't sleep, and while surfing the net, I came across the P64 and P83. Does anybody know anything about them, i.e. reliability, accuracy, availability, etc? Thanks Bill

Subject: P64 & P83 are On Topic! (ctxt) From: Bret To: Bill Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:18:37 (EST) Email Address: gaspressure@farts.com Message: I've only seen pictures of the P64. From what I understand, they are not available, new or used, in the US. However, the P83 is available in the US. I am unfortunately at work and do not have the link. I have two P83's in my Makarov collection. I believe that one is called the 'Special Edition' model and the other is the standard military model. They are very similar to Makarovs in size and shap and use the 9x18 cartridge. The major difference is that the P83 is made almost entirely of stampings. Poland did this in order to make a pistol that is less expensive/complicated to manufacture than the Makarov. Mine have been 100% reliable like my Makarovs. Accuracy is on par with the typical Makarov. From what I can remember, they cost about $250 each and I believe that they are still available from the importer. If you really like Makarovs and are building a collection, then you should have one. - Bret

Subject: Who sells FEG products? From: Ask4id To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:27:19 (EST) Email Address: ask4id@mindspring.com Message: I can't seem to find any sources for FEG pistols. Anyone out there know where to send my FFL? Trying to find one of their fullsize .45's, one of their ultra small 9mm, and of course the PA-63.

Subject: Re: Who sells FEG products? From: stream25 To: Ask4id Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 23:59:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You may want to check out this online dealer: http://www.supershoppingguide.com/Guns/imports/importpistols.htm They have the Feg P9RZ Semi-Auto Pistol, in 9x19mm and the FEG Compact Semi-Auto Pistol in .45. Good Luck

Subject: Re: SOG's site has them From: J.F.D. To: Ask4id Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 22:57:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: On Sogs web site they have PA-63's http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplus_hand.html HTH JIM

Subject: Re: Who sells FEG products? From: Kyrie To: Ask4id Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:25:17 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: I can't seem to find any sources for FEG pistols. Anyone out there know where to send my FFL? Trying to find one of their fullsize .45's, one of their ultra small 9mm, and of course the PA-63. --- I believe K.B.I. of PA is the major importer. OTOH Century Arms International frequently has the .45, the compact 8 mm and the PA63. Here is their URL: http://www.centuryarms.com Hope this helps. Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: Re: Who sells FEG products? From: Ask4id To: Kyrie Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 16:52:31 (EST) Email Address: ask4id@mindspring.com Message: I checked Century's webpage and they had no FEG pistols. KBI's page has nothing on it. Thanks.

Subject: Re: Who sells FEG products? From: Kyrie To: Ask4id Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:43:28 (EST) Email Address: kyrieellis@aol.com Message: I checked Century's webpage and they had no FEG pistols. KBI's page has nothing on it. Thanks. --- Sorry - I just checked and you are right on target about CAI - strange, they usually have them. Regarding K.B.I., give them a call. They have been the major importer of FEG handguns. OTOH, I just received SOG's flyer and they are offer: PJK - Browning high-Power in 9x19 - $189.95 PA63 - Two-tone finish in 9x18 Makarov - $89.00 PA63 - All blue in 9x18 Makarov - $ 83.00 Here is contact info for SOG: Southern Ohio Gun Dist. 100 S. Mechanic Street P.O. Box 590 Lebanon, OH 45036 Voice: 800-944-4867 FAX: 513-932-8928 Sorry about the bum steer on CAI, and hope this helps. Best regards, Kyrie

Subject: CZ 52 40 S&W ? From: Al Benecki To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:14:06 (EST) Email Address: abenecki@peoplepc.com Message: Was wondering if one of my CZ 52's,could be made to fire 40 S&W or 41 AE?41 AE has rebated case rim same size as 9mm para.'7.62X25?'Would 40 S&W require opening up slide face?Or just barrel swap and opening up magazine work?Just an idea I have been playing with.Al

Subject: Re: CZ 52 40 S&W ? From: Zulu95 To: Al Benecki Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:55:25 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Chamber wall would be too thin to take the pressure IMHO!

Subject: Suspicions confirmed about McPhil... From: MickeyD To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:24:05 (EST) Email Address: mmixon@ev1.net Message: McPhil and I combined an order for some EG Maks, and they were beautiful. GSP has some pretty stuff. McPhil came by my house today to survey the goods. I had not met McPhil until today, and my suspicions were confirmed...Nice guy, nicely dressed, easy to talk to, friendly, and he can strip a mak in about 3 seconds flat! Sorry our visit could not have been longer, but maybe at the next gun show... and just for general information, even though he is from Pasadena Texas, he WAS wearing shoes! Just kidding, but still, it does my heart good to finally meet list members I've corresponded with for months, and reconfirm that most do not conform to the picture most libs paint of gun packin' 2nd amendment supporters. In fact, most of the members I've met have been like Phil, extremely nice people, but then I have not met Ilya or Slim Tim yet. Hope you made it back home ok McPhil!! See you again. MickeyD

Subject: Ditto's Mickey... From: McPhil To: MickeyD Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:39:52 (EST) Email Address: McPhil2@swbell.net Message: Mickey D. gave great directions to his house. When I got there he had all my choses out on his kitchen table and I picked the 2 I wanted. They ALL looked great from GSP and if ya'll didn't get in on Richards special of $99.95 each for 2, the 31st is the last day!!! Mickey was a great guy to talk with and I enjoyed being a guest in his home. He was very cordial, very easy to talk to and someone I'd love to go shooting with. I discussed with him about a possible 'Mak shootin' Match' from folks here in the Houston area. I'll look in to getting something set up. If there is any interest in some of you guys, mail me off list and see if there is interest. Again, thanks Mickey D. for the Maks. I can just see SlimTim....... I think he's one of the ZZ Top guy:):):):):) McPhil

Subject: My rebuilt EG Mak Pic From: Rik To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:42:20 (EST) Email Address: rv32898@yahoo.com Message: EG Makarov. trigger job, ramp polish, BEAST slide (sights), 'commanderized' hammer, Federal Arms ext. barrel and thread protector, pearce grips, OD green / black moly-coat by Shootin'Iton of Tucson. www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=mak12&post=true

Subject: need help on uploading pic! From: Rik To: Rik Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:49:55 (EST) Email Address: RV32898@yahoo.com Message: EG Makarov. trigger job, ramp polish, BEAST slide (sights), 'commanderized' hammer, Federal Arms ext. barrel and thread protector, pearce grips, OD green / black moly-coat by Shootin'Iton of Tucson. --- awwww, shoot. i cant seem to upload my darn pics onto this web message board...can anyone help? the pics arent that bad, really! (oh BTW: correction on last post- moly coat by Shootin'Iron not 'Shootin'Iton')

Subject: Re: need help on uploading pic! From: IJ70 To: Rik Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 09:23:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What is the adress for the pic?

Subject: Need Mak flat grip From: Clint To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:30:29 (EST) Email Address: spirals@mailcity.com Message: Anyone know where I can get a flat grip on both sides for my Makarov . Its made in Hungary and had the 7 round clip . if anyone would let me know where i could find a concealed belt holster, that would be great too. Thanks in advance

Subject: Re: Need Mak flat grip From: landisbear To: Clint Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:51:31 (EST) Email Address: landisbear@hotmail.com Message: OOOOOOOPS --- --Make that Other 9x18 pistols --- sorry for the crooked finger....

Subject: Re: Need Mak flat grip From: landisbear To: Clint Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:46:30 (EST) Email Address: landisbear@hotmail.com Message: Sorry Clint..That's not a true Makarov, but it shoots 9x18 Makarov bullets.. check Makarov.com main site, and look under 'Other 9x19 pistols....good luck

Subject: Wet, dry or just a little? From: Bob To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:23:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's the best? Well oiled, just a little oil or nearly dry for a Mak? I do know that shooting one of the more dirty rounds through it can make a big difference but with that it mind, what's the best overall?

Subject: Re: Wet, dry or just a little? From: arcom To: Bob Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:45:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I feel Maks prefer a little extra lube. Certainly not dripping, but a rag soaked with CLP to the point where you can just wring out the lube makes an excellent ''wipe'' for the innards, especially on the bottom of the slide. However, if you carry it Stasi style (just plopped in your coat pocket), it will tend to attract lint and other pocket dwellers. For environments like this, Greg S's cleaner/lube makes a great wipe--it dries and leaves a lube coating behind thanks to the Marvel Mystery Oil and Risolene. If you haven'r mixed up a batch of this, you should. I find it more effective than Ed's Red and mixing it 50-50 with CLP is cleaner heaven.

Subject: Re: Wet, dry or just a little? From: Bob To: arcom Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 00:31:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: arcom, thanks a bunch. I'll give that a try.

Subject: Simson-Suhl safety upgrade From: Mike To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:06:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Was wondering if anyone has gotten one, and can i do it or does it need to machined ? Mike

Subject: Re: Simson-Suhl safety upgrade From: CW To: Mike Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:47:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hey, I got one and installed it on my Arsenal Bulgie. The hammer was no problem; just dropped in. The saftey was very difficult and in the end, I decided to file the original to the correct shape. It's great and the file job wasn't too much trouble. -Chris

Subject: Mak mistake From: Freightman To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 11:03:44 (EST) Email Address: fglennb@nts-online.net Message: Went in to a local dealer just to look, he had a PA63 marked as a EG Mak and had a $220 price tag on it. It was the white slide black frame modle. I ask if he were sure that this was a Mak, well he informed me he was a gun expert and he was sure. So not wanting to argue with a expert I left that subject alone. Just hope that he finds out his mistake befor someone overpays bigtime for the gun. Freightman

Subject: Re: Mak mistake From: PM To: Freightman Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:43:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: This happens in all aspects of life. There are LIARS anywhere you look, trying to prey on misinformed people. In the gun shop, auto repair shop, appliance store, or the tax collector. The more you know, the safer you are!

Subject: Mosin mistake From: Marko To: Freightman Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 15:18:57 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Someone was relaying a story here recently (might have been BRS) about a Finn M-39 Mosin with a two-piece stock that he was carrying around at a gunshow. Vendor behind a table hollers over 'Hey buddy, let me see that old Mauser.' So he heads toward the vendor's table and says, 'Actually, it's a Mosin-Nagant.' To which the vendor continues, 'Yeah, these old Mausers sure are neat.' Then the vendor takes the Mosin to inspect it and says in shock 'Ah sh*t, it's no good to me. Some idiot cut the stock!' He hands it back shaking his head. Our guy replies, 'Yep, some folks suer are idiots...' He takes the rifle back and walks away with a wry grin on his face... Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: Mak mistake From: Pilot To: Freightman Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 15:00:52 (EST) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: I think there are more idiots/gun experts working and owning gun shops than anywhere else. I recently had the owner of a gun shop give me a lecture on which gun I should/shouldn't buy and also why I shouldn't use foreign ammo in my guns. I don't think he would know the difference between a Makarov and an Enfield. Pilot

Subject: Re: Mak mistake From: Dan S. To: Freightman Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 13:19:10 (EST) Email Address: stegosaurus1@hotmail.com Message: At the Medina OH gun show a couple of weeks ago, a dealer had a circle-10 Bulgy mak tagged 'East German' for $249. Says I, 'You know that's a Bulgarian, don't you?'. 'Nope, it's East German.'. 'Circle-10's a Bulgarian mark, and the serial number has a Cyrillic letter in it.'. 'Nope, It's East German.'. I walked away, slowly shaking my head. Dan S.

Subject: Re: Mak mistake From: OneShot To: Dan S. Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 18:54:12 (EST) Email Address: slumbrkatt@aol.com Message: At the Medina OH gun show a couple of weeks ago, a dealer had a circle-10 Bulgy mak tagged 'East German' for $249. Says I, 'You know that's a Bulgarian, don't you?'. 'Nope, it's East German.'. 'Circle-10's a Bulgarian mark, and the serial number has a Cyrillic letter in it.'. 'Nope, It's East German.'. I walked away, slowly shaking my head. Dan S. --- Happens a lot at gun shows.. Saw one of Intracs SLR 110H AKs..Surplus Hungarian parst on new Bulgarian milled reciever..on a table with about 4 other guns total. The guy behind the table insisted ti was new Romanian parts on a US reciever. Best to just let it lie. On a philosophical note though, it is a very small niche we inhabit. To not only be able to tell what model a gun is but where and when it was manufactured from proof marks is pretty minute in the vast array of firearms collecting. I have a good buddy that collects pre 1980 S&W revolvers. He knows intricate details that wouldn't occour to me. Bottom line: Stories like these remind me not to open my piehole if I'm not well versed with a firearm's details, lest I look like a 'Gunshow Monkey'.

Subject: Re: Mak mistake ok From: TENNESSEEAN To: OneShot Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:39:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm still smiling over a smart gun dealer who sold me my last Bulgarian. He wouldn't dicker one penny on the price said he had expenses and more or less if I didn't buy it someone else would. All the time I'm holding a real russian mil/surp mak, didn't turn loose till the paper work was done. Paid the man's price and walked on trying to hide my smile. Thought about it later and went back and got my holster that went with it. So keep your eyes open and if they tell you something wrong you don't have to buy it, but when they make the mistake they're fair game in my opinion cause I think of of the unknowings they have taken. Still smilling TN

Subject: Re: You bad!! ;) From: Greg S. To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:41:39 (EST) Email Address: samplawski@home.com Message: My thoughts match yours exactly!! By the way, the Enfield pistol has a longer barrel than the Mak, correct? :D Greg S.

Subject: How do you hide your C&R... From: Pilot To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:05:21 (EST) Email Address: anthonyafa@aol.com Message: purchases from your wife? My safe is full and now a closet is starting to fill up and my wife is making comments, like, 'Hey! what are all these guns doing in here?!!!' My response, 'Ohh, ahhh, I just brought them up to clean them.' Her response, 'Hey, I've never seen these before!!!' My next response, 'Oh, I've had them for years, you know, these old guns all look the same.' Her response: 'Yeah right!' My favorite trick is to leave them in my car after a guns show, then when she's occupied, I go into the garage and carefully bring them in. Pilot

Subject: Re: How do you hide your C&R... From: Freightman To: Pilot Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:43:24 (EST) Email Address: fglennb@nts-online.net Message: You are fooling yourself, she has you figured out and is only letting you think she is fooled.

Subject: Re: How do you hide your C&R... From: Shayne To: Freightman Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 11:55:10 (EST) Email Address: derspiess@hotmail.com Message: Thankfully, my wife doesn't pay too much attention to what my guns look like, so when she sees me cleaning a new gun, she just assumes it's one i already have. I recently ordered & received 4 C&R's: a Russian M91 rifle, an Israeli 7.62 K98, another Turk Mauser, and an M39. She only saw the M39 (the other 3 came on a day I had off & she luckily was working) and had a mini-fit until I reminded her how many shoes she had been buying. Just hope she doesn't catch on to the other three (which have yet gone unnoticed in the corner of the walk-in closet). My bigger concern is that Century order I placed yesterday for 3 Polish m44's & 1 Steyr-Mannlicher. I'll be out of town on business Thurs. & Friday and I'm not 100% sure I'll be very welcome if I come home & they have already arrived! Regards, Shayne

Subject: Don't have to hide. From: Ron W. To: Shayne Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 16:53:37 (EST) Email Address: ronsw@fastlane.net Message: I don't have to hide my purchases. Sometimes though I have to buy 2 of whatever it is so she can have one. One of my commercial and one of my EG Maks are 'hers'. Life is good!

Subject: engraved mak...HEY CW From: ScoutnStAugustine To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 07:21:36 (EST) Email Address: ScoutH20@aol.com Message: Got some good pics of this Russian...my email adress is ScoutH20@aol.com. It's also on my last two posts.

Subject: Keeps Bouncing Back From: CW To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:17:51 (EST) Email Address: paperflipper@yahoo.com Message: I can't figure it out... I tried your email and it was bounced back twice!! -Chris

Subject: Re: Keeps Bouncing Back From: ScoutnStAugustine To: CW Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 07:31:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I sent you two pics...lemme know if they turned out OK and please post them here if you can...I sure can't. Later.

Subject: How Many US Importers? From: CW To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 02:32:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Was just wondering how many importers are there for the East German Mak? What are their markings? My favorite is an Ernst Thaelmann from IACO SACCA (which I assume is Sacramento Calif.) I like it because all the import marks are tiny and are located on the front grip strap of the slide. Anybody else have one? I picked that one off ebay (back when ya could)! -Chris

Subject: Re: How Many US Importers? From: J.F.D. To: CW Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:42:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: CW; SSME Deutsche Waffen stamps all the EG's under the grip, so you get a really clean looking gun My EG http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1356590&a=10105569&p=35159828

Subject: Re: How Many US Importers? From: PM To: CW Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:08:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mine's one of the RUKO ones. Yeah, you know, the ones with a paragraph etched into the slide!!

Subject: EG Mak production #'s From: Carlos Z To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:59:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: CW had asked aboput an article I quoted earlier about the number of EG maks produced and after doing some over due cleaning I found the numbers. According to a 3 Oct 1990 printout the Bundeswehr rec'd with the weapons the absorbed from the NVA, there were 270,681 pistols inventoried. However, an actual count of the Pistole M stock totaled at 266,537 units. The article also states that as of '1 Jan 1994 there were still 1,232 on hand. The Bundeswehr isolated the 'Made in DDR' Makarov pistols for utilization.' Where one could assume from the first two sets of numbers that perhaps not everyone wanted to return thier issue side arms faced with the inevitable dissolution of thier home state. However I'm more inclined to think that whoever was responsible for the count made up an aproximate number, which would explain how after comparing the totals for the MPi47, they wound up with 60,000 more rifles on hand than was originally listed.

Subject: Re: EG Mak production #'s From: CW To: Carlos Z Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 02:24:54 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks for the (re)info! Kind'a makes you wonder how many have made it over here... They've been imported since 1990. Also I wonder how many were considered 'non-functional' due to damage? How many other coutries they were exported too? Etc. -Chris

Subject: Original Grips? From: blazerfan To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 00:21:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I was wondering if Bulgarian Maks come in varying grip colors and still be an authentic unissued military model as opposed to commercial? Normally it seems like I've only seen them with the red star grip. J&G Sales said that their current batch comes with black grips. Would this mean that their not the surplus pistols? I want to make sure when I finally get my Mak, that it's the real deal. Not familiar with these guns at all. Help. Thanks.

Subject: Still military Bulgarian From: Mark To: blazerfan Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:07:43 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Blazerfan: The current batch of J&G pistols are definitely military pistols (not Arsenal commercial version). The military grip is the red star version, but the pistols are often found with the black thumbrest 'sporting' versions, due to BATF import regs. Many dealers sell the pistols with both grips. But sometimes, somewhere along the line, the wholesaler/distributor/dealer pulls the military grip and sells them separately. If your Bulgarian does not come with the red grip, Karl sells them here at makarov.com for $15 shipped. Take care. Marko

Subject: Nothing wrong w/an Arsenal From: PM To: Mark Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:50:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Both my Arsenal Bulgies are better than my circle 10! My first Mak is an Arsenal that now has over 5000 rounds through it on all stock parts, except I put a 19# recoil spring on it about 2000 rounds ago. Bluing's worn pretty good, since it's been carried a lot, but this just gives me an excuse to send it to Mac's for a two-tone gun-kote refinish! :^)

Subject: Ammo Deals From: Rev Rob To: All Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 00:09:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Does anyone know of this company? Wisconsin Cartridge Corp They havs some nice deals on remanufactured ammo. But hows thier rep, anyone know? Rev Rob

Subject: Re: Ammo Deals From: landisbear To: Rev Rob Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 08:01:15 (EST) Email Address: landisbear@hotmail.com Message: Hi Rev.... can't find it .. Do you have a URL on this site??????

Subject: Re: Ammo Deals From: Rev Rob To: landisbear Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:40:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I dont have a site address for them I found them on gunbroker.com while looking for 10mm. I noticed they also have 9x18 ammo. If you look up 10mm they are selling 200rds for $25. Then click on view sellers other auctions to see what else they have. Rev Rob

Subject: Are they really drying up ? From: ScoutnStAugustine To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 22:05:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Went to a pretty big gun show in Jacksonville (Florida) yesterday. Saw fewer Maks than ever. Only 3 Bulgies, that were marked at no less than $175.00, one EG at $189.00 (in good shape though)and NO RUSSIANS. What is this world coming to ??? Might be an example of get 'em while ya can huh ??

Subject: From: To: Date Posted: Email Address: Message:

Subject: Re: Are they really drying up ? From: RonH To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 18:58:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I was at the same show in Jacksonville. You're right there weren't many Maks period. The prices of the ones that were there were, as you said, much higher than you can buy them for. Don't know if you've heard about GSP down in Delray Beach. I bought 2 EG's from him 2-3 weeks ago in Ft. Lauderdale for $99 each.

Subject: Re: Are they really drying up ? From: Rob To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:24:48 (EST) Email Address: houndawg3@aol.com Message: I don't think they're drying up. People want them and dealers know it. So they charge a premium for them. When you tell them about the pricing you see in ads, they claim ignorance, or they tell you they can't get them that cheap from their distributer. It's all a game. I'm having the same problem with the HS2000. My dealer wants $350 for one and gets them from the local (high priced) distributer for $299. I'd tell him to order one from Bill's, but he probably won't. Zander's is the distributer around here and all local dealers use them. Count on getting the same prices at all of the dealers around here. Rob

Subject: Rob, you need a new dealer. From: PM To: Rob Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:24:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mine charges a $15 transfer fee. I call the phone # in the Shotgun News ad, ask them if they have his FFL on file, and if they don't, I'll call him, and give him their name, and address, if they do, then I just order it. He's a good guy, and stays well within the letter of the law, but just a good example of a guy who's in the business to stay! If the distributer already has his FFL on file, then all he's got to do is hang on to the shipment, until I pick it up! EASY!! If he's gotta' send 'em a copy of his FFL, then I'll float him an extra $5, or $10.

Subject: Re: Rob, you need a new dealer. From: Rob To: PM Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:33:40 (EST) Email Address: houndawg3@aol.com Message: A lot of dealers around here look at you funny when you ask about a transfer. They want the profit in their pocket, not just 10 or 15 bucks. Rob

Subject: Re: Rob, you need a new dealer. From: PM To: Rob Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 19:53:21 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 25 transfers a year for 1 person, of which 75% of the wholesalers had the FFL already on file, is nearly pure profit, as far as my dealers's concerned! Espececially when you add in all the ammo, bullets, powder, primers, holsters, dies, etc......... Most of the shops around here are the same way that you describe, Rob. Seems that they're more concerned with one BIG sale, than making a life-long customer. Take care Pat

Subject: Re: Are they really drying up ? From: MickeyD To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 00:21:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: J&G Sales has Bulgies for $99.95. Pick up the latest issue of Shotgun News and they have not less than 5 dealers with East German and Bulgarian Maks. Drying up? I don't think so. Maybe in your town, but not here or nationally. Gunshow in Houston last weekend I saw several maks around $140. MickeyD

Subject: Re: Are they really drying up ? From: still waiting To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 22:20:54 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I have been posting the same thing here for a while. I'm trying to find a mak here in Texas, but the maks i have been finding are about the same price as you listed here. I don't know if maks are 'drying up', but they are definately more expensive than what i had anticipated.

Subject: Re: Are they really drying up ? From: Tyler To: still waiting Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 23:29:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We had a little gun show in Tyler, Texas this weekend. I saw one Bulgarian Arsenal for $180, one East German for $250, and one Bulgarian unissued for $139. There weren't many at the show. If I were you, I would not worry about getting a dealer to take a transfer and order one from GSP. I don't think you will be disappointed. I bought four that appeared to have never been fired.

Subject: Still waiting, check here. From: Stag To: still waiting Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:36:28 (EST) Email Address: Philmar@swbell.net Message: E-mail me off line if you are looking for a Mak. I have one or two here in Texas

Subject: Re: Still waiting, check here. From: Bob To: Stag Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 06:47:10 (EST) Email Address: mayb@flash.net Message: E-mail me off line if you are looking for a Mak. I have one or two here in Texas --- Looking for NIB MAK special edition.

Subject: Bob, check it out From: Marko To: Bob Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 13:06:57 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: E-mail me off line if you are looking for a Mak. I have one or two here in Texas --- Looking for NIB MAK special edition. --- Bob: There's a NIB blued .380 Miltex SE for sale on Gun Broker. Here's the link: http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?item=922536 Take care. Marko

Subject: what's a 'special edition' Mak ? From: ScoutnStAugustine To: Bob Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:37:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Something I coulda'..... From: PM To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:30:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: picked up from CDNN Investments, a little over a year ago, for $170, and DIDN'T!!!!!!!

Subject: Re: Something I coulda'..... From: TENNESSEEAN To: PM Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:52:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Along with the Arcus/Miltex 9mm two tone for another 29 bucks. TN

Subject: Head over to the main site From: Marko To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:57:25 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Head over to the main site. There are pictures and descriptions of the major Mak variations, including the Miltex Special Editions. Take care. Marko

Subject: check out these markings From: ScoutnStAugustine To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 22:00:34 (EST) Email Address: ScoutH20@aol.com Message: Well, I got the commemorative Russian .380, for $179.00 and a beat up old 12 guage pump shotgun. Can anyone tell me how to post the pics ? Or if you wanna see them just email me. It has the engraving '40 YEARS OF MAKAROV PISTOLS - 1993' on the left side of the slide, and a bore that is as smooth and shiny as a mirror, and the ramp into the chamber is shiny and silver, it may never have been shot. Came with two tools and a spare mag in the box.

Subject: Let's See 'Em! From: CW To: ScoutnStAugustine Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 02:04:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What's your email address? I'd love to see the pics! -Chris

Subject: Re: How Do You Post?? From: M&M's36 To: CW Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:53:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Could someone post a tutorial on 'posting pics for dummies' I have a digital camera and I have some guns I would love to show off but I just dont get how to upload a pic or where I have to upload(like what site etc...)I do love to see everyone's weapons. Thanks Rob

Subject: bum weekend From: TENNESSEEAN To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 21:50:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 3 new maks, 2 laminate aim 44s plenty of ammo best weather in weeks, free weekend sounds good right. WRONG flu bug attacked, sicker than a hound dog been chewing on toad frogs and if you ain't never seen that its some kinda sick. Gonna live now mabey next weekend. TN

Subject: Get well, TN! (ntxt) From: PM To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 21:11:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Ditto(ntx) From: Markus To: PM Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 22:10:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: You've got a way with words... From: Marko To: TENNESSEEAN Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:54:55 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: So,'sicker than a hound dog been chewing on toad frogs', huh? I just love southern expressions. Us yanks are so matter of fact: 'I was puking my guts out.' Or if we get REALLY creative: 'I was selling Buicks to Ralph.' Somehow yours just sounds so much more colorful (figuratively speaking, not literally speaking of course). In all seriousness, hope you're feeling better soon. It is a bummer when you have to wait to try out the new aquisitions. And speaking of them, what's your impressions of AIM's laminate 44's? Any pictures? Thanks. Take care. Marko

Subject: Re: You've got a way with words... From: TENNESSEEAN To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 20:52:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks I'm surviving and getting back in the grove not on top shelf yet but soon. We got plenty of good sayins here in the hills. Don't have any pictures of the 44's yet, I'll get some later. I think there's a couple on Tucos Board. I bought two on $69 and one $89. The 69$ is probably 90-92% gun as far as metal and blueing goes, all numbers match except bolt. Stock looks like it has been used in a stick rock game (we couldn't afford a ball down here) the other is a good 98% gun and the stock has the usual marking you find on any mil/surp gun. Either one is well worth the money depending on your wants and needs. Prices at last gun shows were 90-150 depending on condition. HTH TN

Subject: Mak's in Michigan?? From: DOctor To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 19:57:47 (EST) Email Address: matejabrian@hotmail.com Message: I would be interested in finding out in any shops in SE MI carry Mak's. I am planning on getting a pistol, I would perfer to support a local before one of the large outfits first....but who knows. Thanks in advance, Brian

Subject: Re: Mak's in Michigan?? From: Stevoreeno To: DOctor Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 23:10:49 (EST) Email Address: Audix99@yahoo.com Message: Check out Midwest Ordnance. They are located in Royal Oak, and they carry NOTHING BUT MILITARY SURPLUS (well, almost..) That's the shop I used to go all the time when I was in Michigan... (Boy, don't I miss that great state of Michigan... Go Spartans, by the way.. Heh Heh Heh...) The people there is very knowledable on military arms, although their price on certain items tend to be a bit high-side, I think... Anyway, that's where I bought my E.G. Mak and I paid $189. I know I overpaid, but I think in general, Mak is priced higher in Michigan.. I don't know why, but all the Maks I saw in Michigan (gun shops in Lansing, Highland and Royal Oak--) all had price tag of $180 to even $250 (380 ACP Russian one, which I thought was a total nonsense!!).. Anyway, here's the address and number... 747 N. Main St. (on Austin 100 ft. west of Main) Royal Oak, MI 48067 (248) 547-5658 Oh, they also have a website.. Address is http://www.midwestordnance.com Take care, Brian..

Subject: Re: Mak's in Michigan?? From: Richard To: DOctor Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 21:55:26 (EST) Email Address: Richard@lee-enfield.net Message: Try Mizisin Shooting Supply in Flint. I see him regularly at the Mason , MI gunshow an dhe usually has a mak or two. He let me borrow one to fit a holster at the last show. 810-233-6542.

Subject: which? fair price From: Bob To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 19:50:29 (EST) Email Address: mayb@flash.net Message: Looking at a used Mak in a gun store today, don't remember all the markings but it did say Bulgarian and from pictures seen on Makarov.com i'm sure it is a special edition but the gun had a brushed chrome slide and a black receiver. Can anyone tell exactly which Mak this is and also the store is asking $270. is this a fair price? tis site indicates that a new special edition should sell for $250. ?? Thanks Bob

Subject: Does it look like this? From: Marko To: Bob Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 23:31:43 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Hi Bob: The Mak you saw sounds just like my Miltex Special Edition. Click on the link below for a photo. While most anyone on the Mak discussion board will tell you it's my favorite gun in my stable, and while my SE is more valuable to me than the $229 I paid for it, the fact is they can be had for much cheaper than $270. Even if it's new in the box, I personally wouldn't go higher than $250. Now, with that said, they really aren't very common and the workmanship is a bit more polished than most Maks. So if the dealer won't budge, you'd only be paying $270 for a fairly unique and visually attractive pistol that out-performs the similarly-sized Walther PPK for a little over half the price. There, how's that for playing both sides of the fence? Let us know what you decide. Take care. Marko Link: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=302006&a=2244395&p=17641378

Subject: Re: Does it look like this? From: Bob To: Marko Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 06:53:58 (EST) Email Address: mayb@flash.net Message: Hi Bob: The Mak you saw sounds just like my Miltex Special Edition. Click on the link below for a photo. While most anyone on the Mak discussion board will tell you it's my favorite gun in my stable, and while my SE is more valuable to me than the $229 I paid for it, the fact is they can be had for much cheaper than $270. Even if it's new in the box, I personally wouldn't go higher than $250. Now, with that said, they really aren't very common and the workmanship is a bit more polished than most Maks. So if the dealer won't budge, you'd only be paying $270 for a fairly unique and visually attractive pistol that out-performs the similarly-sized Walther PPK for a little over half the price. There, how's that for playing both sides of the fence? Let us know what you decide. Take care. Marko Link: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=302006&a=2244395&p=17641378 --- Yes as near as I recall it looks exactly like your picture. The only hold up on the $270 is the unknown, one clip, no manual that I might get if I could locate a new one. Any ideas? Bob

Subject: Here's what should be included From: Marko To: Bob Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 11:14:49 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnell@prodigy.net Message: Bob: Here's what should be included with the Miltex SE pistol: special edition grip; hardcase; manual; two matching magazines with extended floorplate; cleaning tool. The manual and cleaning tool shouldn't be overly hard to locate, as they're the same that's included with the commercial Arsenal Maks. The hardcase, grip and mag extensions will be the tougher items to find. Will the seller come down on the price? You could use any missing items as a bargaining tool. Keep us posted. Take care. Marko

Subject: MP-654K Mak From: pa To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 18:49:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yesterday I got an MP-654K CO2 powered Mak in trade for some stuff. New in box with cleaning rod, BB's, tool and manual. Always wanted to try one. Now today I received another one that I won in an auction that I had forgotten about. These Mak's are somethin'. Took one of them down and cleaned it all up and proceeded to shoot it downstairs at my lil' mini 25' range. Double-action trigger pull is about normal for a new Mak, but single-action is decent. Starting on a Pepsi can in front of a big piece of white cardboard (so I can see where the heck I'm hittin'), I started to learn where to hold the sights on this Mak. Not bad, but...I NEED the practice.

Subject: Re: MP-654K Mak From: Karl To: pa Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 19:03:30 (EST) Email Address: karl@makarov.com Message: They are pretty nifty. Just stocked up on some CO2 cartridges so I can shoot again. Here's more on the gun: CO2 page on Makarov.com Also, I have a special with a free Pearce 10-rd grip with purchase. See the shopping cart and click sale and clearance items. -Karl

Subject: Re: MP-654K Mak From: pa To: Karl Date Posted: Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 01:07:38 (EST) Email Address: payeager1@home.com Message: They are pretty nifty. Just stocked up on some CO2 cartridges so I can shoot again. Here's more on the gun: CO2 page on Makarov.com Also, I have a special with a free Pearce 10-rd grip with purchase. See the shopping cart and click sale and clearance items. -Karl --- Thanks Karl...I appreciate it. Will check it out.

Subject: East German Mak's for sale From: Brian To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 18:41:03 (EST) Email Address: chrrbruce@aol.com Message: I have two East German Makarov's for sale. Both were made in 1962.Each one has an extra grip (one with thumb rest, one without).Two mag's and a shoulder holster are also included with each one. Excellent condition. $210

Subject: Re: East German Mak's for sale From: DOctor To: Brian Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 19:37:59 (EST) Email Address: matejabrian@hotmail.com Message:

Subject: Re: East German Mak's for sale From: DOctor To: DOctor Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 19:40:52 (EST) Email Address: matejabrian@hotmail.com Message: Sorry about the first blank message...hit the wrong button. E-mail will be sent tonight.

Subject: Import mark Question From: Freightman To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 17:15:49 (EST) Email Address: fglennb@nts-online.net Message: I have a EG Mak that is marked NHM Sac CA please put some light on this import mark?

Subject: Re: Import mark Question From: Disabilly To: Freightman Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 21:50:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Import mark Question From: Disabilly To: Disabilly Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 22:01:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've got the same import mark on my EG mak. The only thing I can tell you is I bought it at the old Sacramento Armory down town Sac Calif.

Subject: Re: Import mark Question From: Freightman To: Disabilly Date Posted: Tues, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:39:56 (EST) Email Address: fglennb@nts-online.net Message: Thanks; that sounds like that may be who it was, who knows. I got mine from AIM they said all of theres wewe from CAI, well one wasn't. Mine looked nwe and shots great. Freightman

Subject: ammo From: Mike To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 16:15:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I just purchased a Bulgarian Mak (Unissued)9x18.I was wondering if you all can help me out ? I was wondering what would be the best ammo for this gun.And if anyone has any other good tips for a first time mak owner it would be apperciated.Thanks, Mike

Subject: Re: ammo From: pa To: Mike Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 18:31:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I just purchased a Bulgarian Mak (Unissued)9x18.I was wondering if you all can help me out ? I was wondering what would be the best ammo for this gun.And if anyone has any other good tips for a first time mak owner it would be apperciated.Thanks, Mike --- I also received a new Bulgarian last Christmas and proceeded to buy 4 types of ammo at a show to see which ammo shot the best out of this pistol. S&B 95 grain, Norinco 95 grain, Wolf 109 grain and TCW 109 grain. They all shot flawlessly. This particular Mak shoots the S&B and the Norinco a little low at 25 yards, but shoots the TCW and the WOLF a little high at the same distance. Sounds backwards to me...but this is what happens. Also, the Wolf/TCW adds a little extra punch to your hand. All ammo shoots right on windage. Haven't tried the hollow point stuff yet, but as soon as I find a box or two to try...;^)

Subject: Beretta 92FS hi-cap mags in the HS2000? From: Marko To: All Date Posted: Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 09:03:11 (EST) Email Address: mark.odonnel@prodigy.net Message: This is sure to generate some intersting discussion. Rob Reed posted a reply to my HS 2000 report, lamenting the fact that hi-cap mags aren't available for it. Well Rob, our prayers MIGHT be answered. Here's a link to one of the current threads at Glock-Talk. One of the posters there claims that (according to some of the gun rags) the HS 2000 was designed to take Beretta 92FS hi-cap mags. Apparently, all that is needed is for a small hole to be drilled for the mag catch. Some are aguing that you're not allowed to modify a magazine to fit another firearm. Others are arguing that yes you can -- you just can't modify its capacity. Others are saying that yes you can modify capacity -- as long as it's used in the firearm it was designed for. What say the rest of you? I know that Kel-Tec owners use unmodified hi-cap S&W mags in their pistols. Is the simple drilling of a hole for the magazine catch a no-no? Let's hear you. Take care. Marko Beretta 92FS hi-caps in the HS2000? <